asciilifeform suspects that herr newton is poor example -- fella did end up master of mint, and prolly not by sitting in locked office refusing to talk
asciilifeform: ( steam won because fast+reliable, not simply 'fast' . and apparently skilled navigator can make up the diff much of the time. but, 'phd assembly line', none alive nao. )
asciilifeform: well wouldn't be interesting if were 'wood paste'. but they actually made nyc-helsinki in 2wks routinely.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: interestingly, the finns ran iron-cum-sails clippers all the way into 1920s.
asciilifeform: bvt: i'm not convinced that any of the sock options are needed, aside from during reconnect (to keep 'zombie' socket from interfering w/ the living )
asciilifeform: ( wasn't just airplane and rocket makers, either. gen. k. rokossovsky , was pulled out of gulag in '40, ended up instrumental in the defense of moscow; and leading the victory parade in '45. )
asciilifeform: stalin is remembered as effective king strictly because the war forced moderation of leukocyte. otherwise, he'd be remembered as exactly like e.g. emperor qin shihuangdi, who beheaded succession of 9000 alchemists for failing to produce elixir of immortality, until finally gave up in frustration and ate one , fulla hg salts
asciilifeform: 'one day the king of all animals gathered his subjects in a forest clearing and said : 'today we shall anally punish those who have the smallest mouths. right, hedgehog?' 'Yaaaaa, Yaaaa!' said hedgehog. 'and tomorrow we shall anally chastise those who have the biggest mouths! 'hmm, hmm,' said hippo. ' )
asciilifeform: fwiw 'talk directly to mp' when 'i'm in a corner' moar often than not , in my experience, gives this output. i accept this, he's a 'sink or swim' sort of guru. but also not surprised that phf hesitated to ask him for an evac chopper .
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i wasn't there, at the tea table, so can't say. but fwiw i suspect he thought 'already written off' .
asciilifeform: diana_coman: no, i actually buy your summary, 'd00d wouldn't fucking talk'. but i'm also willing to ask ~why~ didn't talk ? maybe because erry time he opened the door, there was a beating behind it ?
asciilifeform: or maybe to grow chloroplasts, so he dun need to eat by doing saecular labour ?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: changed how ? grow extra pair of hands ? a tree-proof arse ?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: to properly colour in this picture -- what would have looked like 'engage beyond the technical' ?
asciilifeform: evidently asciilifeform has diff. reading from diana_coman , of the 'clear' .
asciilifeform: diana_coman: for my enlightenment, plox to summarize, in own words, 'how phf lost his epaulettes' .
asciilifeform: diana_coman: and if yer about to say 'the fact that phf said 10 words in that many months' at one pt same was tru of e.g. trinque . and i suspect if deedbot had been the bot that fell for a week, we'd be having exactly same thread about trinque instead of phf .
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the trigger for the entire episode. was the loss of the logger .
asciilifeform: diana_coman: what detail, in your eyes important, am i neglecting ?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: if expectation is that logging is a 24/7/365 system -- then yes ought to be obv. that it aint a job for 1 set of hands. rather than 'let's put it in 1 hands for years and then say 'saboteur' when he falls down' .
asciilifeform: for that matter, we still have a system like this -- deedbot. is trinque doomed to same fate as phf, if he ever 'gets lucky' and trapped on cannibal island , and it takes him a week to knife his way out ?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: let's reformulate. it takes a very long time to produce 1st class people. (as a pedagogue, you know this.) if they burn up faster than they are produced -- this is a problem.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935482 << iirc mircea_popescu warned about this (and apparently was right) : the coupla folx in #a, already would not do when mircea_popescu asked ; why would they do when asciilifeform asks, who isn't famous hero, has no millions, no harems, nothing in particular that forces recalcitrant folx to stand up. so far the output of the #a people is the predicted 0.
asciilifeform: trinque: for that matter, there ain't a spare mircea_popescu either. observe that nobody else knows how to strip the valence electrons from folx like phf and make'em usefully react. none of the burnouts are doing anyffin worth note in e.g. #a .
asciilifeform: but i aint about to nod to 'x was always trotskyist, we were mistaken from day 1 to involve him' logic.
asciilifeform: if i knew why some folx are good for a year, others -- 2, 3, etc. i promised, would say.
asciilifeform: trinque: my contention wasn't that it was somehow work for mircea_popescu to nurse'em back to health (how?)
asciilifeform: trinque: from where this implication ?
asciilifeform: trinque: fwiw i suspect they 'ran' to bottle, rather than 'to empire'.
asciilifeform: trinque: for my part, i remember'em as folx who did 1st class work, of the kind i suspect nobody born after '90 is able to do, full stop. but then ran outta steam. (why, i do not know.)
asciilifeform: it is very easy to say 'they were weak, fughet'em'. but fact remains, they were not replaced , of yet .
asciilifeform: trinque: and also ftr i have nfi where Framedragger, esthlos, went.
asciilifeform: trinque: ftr i don't even know what did phf in. (it wasn't the ski mishap, obv. but some chronic degeneration)
asciilifeform: trinque: 2-3 moar 'wins' like this and what will be left , will be mircea_popescu writing his memoirs.
asciilifeform: trinque: obv. mircea_popescu's (and for that matter anyone's) ratings are b/w him and odin. but imho to present the disappearance of phf as some kinda win, is disingenuous at best .
asciilifeform: trinque: orig. contention, which i disputed. phf was 1 of the very, very few people whose hands grew from right place, and it will take very long time to replace , not even speaking of the full functionality of the orig. bot ( still not had ) but of e.g. the vpatch viewer, which i use erry fucking day of the week
asciilifeform: ( pet : 'get up, there's a mail bomb for you' )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: meanwhile the ps is here. ( and so is the xy table for the drillings, ~40kg of cast iron ugh in a 20th-c-style wooden coffin )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: orig link still broken, it seems
asciilifeform: hanbot: afaik it was made right after 'submarine', was overtly a riff on subj. ( but based actually on v. f. odoevsky's 1834 short story 'city in the snuffbox' . )
asciilifeform: lobbes: when you have the correct (i.e. both ends) vpatch for this, i'ma test & stand up on my end asap, so 'log-raw' sync worx properly.
asciilifeform: and then there's the 'stealth' binturds . e.g. linux kernel superficially seems to be 100% text, but in fact there's coupla 100MB of init-turds as hex .h includes , and so on.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: just about ~all since 2010 or so, per asciilifeform's notes. ( invariably there's a pdf turd passed off as documentation, or jpegs for guism, or in device drivers -- magick init binturds ; etc )
asciilifeform: not even any kind of new plague. mircea_popescu recall how we had to cut a buncha gifs etc outta pre-trb to bake the genesis.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: heathen sores tars do tend to contain astonishing volumes of binliquishit. ( or were you thinking of the thompsonistic trap where 'need gnat to build gnat' etc. , rather ? )
asciilifeform has nfi whether the locals buy from Official shop, or grow 'christmas garden' under uv lamp, or which.
asciilifeform: gone are the days when aficionados would stuff towels under doors to conserve the precious smoak
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: meanwhile afaik the closest Official herb shop here is in bmore; but at the same time the exhaust gas is errywhere, from ~erry window in the evening when walking, even out of cars stopped at lights.
asciilifeform: i still dun grasp why os's tcp stack doesn't liquidate a socket known to be stone dead. but this i suppose is a q for the original perpetrators , when they're connected to 220v
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if the tcp stack per se is retarded in this way, i expect it is also in cobol , fortran, etc, how not.
asciilifeform: what was the 'logic' inside the 'heads' that thought this to be permissible ?
asciilifeform: also wtf, 'double connect on same socket', why the everliving fuck is this even a thing.
asciilifeform: as i currently understand, if one were to 1) SO_REUSEADDR + 2) force it closed before attempting any connect -- oughta cure
asciilifeform: bvt: how didja generate the item seen in the paste ?
asciilifeform: bvt: i still do not know whether socket 'was not closed, but wedged' somehow (in which case proggy oughta be made such as to find out, and close asap) or in fact closed but on acct of the idjit zombie-by-default thing, not reusable
asciilifeform: diana_coman: admittedly asciilifeform is not any kind of star pedagogue. but from own schooling, i found much moar memorable the lessons where 'and this is btw is also the tamper equation in hbomb!' than 'you Need To ... for exam!'
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i actually dun know when/how precisely the fella tuned in. but will hazard a guess that it was because he had spark of 'hmm, these folx have working gears'. so i suspect best result with him might be to pour some kerosene on that fire. 'motivation from interest' is 9000x bigger fire than 'motivation from needs-to'.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i generally dun like to 'bring own vows to other's monastery' but wanted to try giving the fella sumthing to chew on. possibly is good idea .
asciilifeform: bvt: fixed!! and ty for the eagle eye.
asciilifeform: ( whether succeeded -- do not know yet. )
