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mod6: I've always thought that DBAs are the most masochistic of the bunch.

a111: Logged on 2018-04-26 03:41 trinque: re: db, I'm reserving a lul now for when asciilifeform discovers that postgresql does, in fact, tell you what an operation will cost before you run it.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-26#1805608 << i know 'explain' command, but its output was of 0 help in re: e.g. the 'in ...' vs 'not in ...' puzzle. and pretty much everywhere else. ☝︎

trinque: re: db, I'm reserving a lul now for when asciilifeform discovers that postgresql does, in fact, tell you what an operation will cost before you run it. ☟︎

ben_vulpes: "can never demonstrate the absence of bugs" notwithstanding, i don't know why folks don't slow down and test that their deliverables do what they claim before making claims

ben_vulpes: links to the ml advocates, their jupyter notebooks, and the troubles they have "getting from research to production" too i'd hazard

ben_vulpes: i exaggerate, db constraints and stored procedures and transactionality and permissions are all very nice things.

mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, i dun agree ; excel is clown car. the db stuff... not really.

ben_vulpes: trinque: you know i tell folks i squirt grease on the largest $problem-domain spreadsheet they could possibly imagine when they ask what i do; i can laugh and cry about it allll day

deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/what-have-i-been-doing/ << Trilema - What have I been doing ?

mircea_popescu: hey phf can i get a count of words / day in my loglines ?

phf: asciilifeform: aha, i figured as much, idle curiosity about where the hardware boundaries lie. we'll find out soon enough!

asciilifeform: unlike the chromenintendo i experimented on in 2013

mircea_popescu: yes well, not everyone's an asshole. i don't recall the last time someone came up with the idea of assaulting ro embassies.

phf: asciilifeform: i would be pleasantly surprised if the machine can have a blobless video/wifi

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'ma put it in the queue then. ( machine per se, came in last night )

asciilifeform: i could be wrong about this, did not dig in deeply

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-25#1805414 << mezzano seems -- since i last looked -- to be almost enuff to make an actual workstation os out of , if anybody bothered to get hold of a e.g. apu1 with sage snake and tailor it properly to the iron ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-04-25 04:01 mircea_popescu: but in the general i suppose polarbeard's adventure is kinda illustrative of YET ANOTHER failure mode of personal heroics. besides the "lalala i can't hear" style there's apparently also the "oh, who has time for small steps, i'ma make huge contributions as a virtual unknown".

asciilifeform: and gotta narrowly focus on subject, rather than 'hey look i turned 17 knobs at once'

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-25#1805426 << not quite how i remember it. d00d was demonstrably inadherent to the concept of vpatch hygiene , persisted with creation of shithub-style megaturds ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-04-25 06:27 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-24#1805245 <- for the light+clean gentoo factor I'd buy one but I can't say I see atm a case for buying a lot of them

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-25#1805494 << i can't picture who ( other than mircea_popescu in his described possible use case ) would need more than 1 ( or perhaps 2, 1 as a spare ) ☝︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-25#1805475 << lol somehow nobody but me noticed the bug. i fixed it this morning, all that remains is to clean the crapola from the db, will do this after backup ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-04-24 23:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, diana_coman , et al, other folx who travel -- i'd like to get a picture of whether there is 'market' in l1/l2 for a pre-engentooated ( laugh at the laddel-ism, but it promises to be a somewhat painful process involving crocodile and eeprom writer ) 'c101pa' rockchip lappy .

diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-24#1805245 <- for the light+clean gentoo factor I'd buy one but I can't say I see atm a case for buying a lot of them ☝︎☟︎

mod6: yeah, i remember smelling it in the air.

mod6: That day I think I set a PR for furthest driven in one single day: OKC->Dallas->El Paso->Tucson

mod6: I went through midland/odessa once, didn't stop. Kept foot on gas.

trinque: I got got

trinque: to digress, one of the guys called the porch a "pollo" and I swear he was fucking with me.

trinque: I forgot you had the wandering patches too.

mircea_popescu: goes right back to the problem of the unknown. i CAN shoot down bikeshedding if i know the person. i can't if they're unknown, because then it's legitimate part of dogs sniffing butts getting to know each other.

mod6: phf: this is a solid point. I think everyone wants their own way of logging/logging statements.

phf: yeah, it was a combination of factors. his logging facility patch received a lot of criticism, though i now regret voicing mine. it's a bit of a bike shed problem, everyone has their own idea of how to do it "right", but it's not done to this day.

mod6: <+trinque> mod6: I've got a sendrawtxn patch sitting over here << actually, i should mention that i /did/ create a trb sendrawtransaction (just this one rpc call) vpatch late last year, but never sent -- really wanted the rest of the gang 'create', 'sign', etc.

mircea_popescu: but in the general i suppose polarbeard's adventure is kinda illustrative of YET ANOTHER failure mode of personal heroics. besides the "lalala i can't hear" style there's apparently also the "oh, who has time for small steps, i'ma make huge contributions as a virtual unknown". ☟︎

phf: mircea_popescu: he had one megapatch that i remember being somewhat controversial, it's the one where he reworked the logging facility, but the other two look reasonably small (rm unused functions and add sendrawtransaction rpc). i remember there being some issues with asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum and asciilifeform-programmable-versionstring that required at least two regrinds, which was around the time he was working on his.

trinque: I don't expect to make that one mainline "trb" though, unless somewhere down the line somebody also breaks off script.cpp into a tx compiler, breaks off a signer, etc

mod6: re: polarbeard is right, guy simply isn't in the wot (afaik), so partly, I'm trying to solution on my own without polluting my path too much.

mod6: I've been working a bit further on my own, seeing how it could be done by what exists. I should look back at polarbeards stuff too.

mod6: Yeah, nothing really wrong there I suppose, as stated, basically undertook the exercise as "educational". Just to see what could be done.

trinque: I'm blocked on not having the manifest, so next on my plate is to regrind every patch with a manifest entry.

trinque: got one that rips out the noui.h idiocy too, and a few others that need finishing before I fork a walletless trb

trinque: mod6: I've got a sendrawtxn patch sitting over here

mircea_popescu: i thought it had a standards document and everything.

mod6: I am currently in the early stages of next steps; re-implementation within the existing framework. More to come on that front as I have updates.

mod6: Lords and Ladies of the Republic, I present to this chamber my findings on the Raw Transactions Back-Port Exercise: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000297.html

phf: i treat the exercise as a chinese room wired to explosives. making a mistake elevates danger level, passage of time elevates danger level, there's a random factor when it's going to blow anyway, etc.

mircea_popescu: no, by all means, i like watching the "alf encounters technology" hour :D

asciilifeform: ah what i needed was 'select mod from ...' and so ends up with 'column reference 'mod' is ambiguous'

phf: but there's only so few rabbis i can pull out of a hat

mircea_popescu: which i must grant he's very good at.

mircea_popescu: because he's doing what i told you to do discreetely.

asciilifeform: nao all i gotta do is find out why...

asciilifeform: trinque: i'ma stop polluting, at this point, the logs, and solve the problem programmatically outside of the abjectly retarded sqltron

trinque: I'm backing away. asking us to optimize a query in isolation for you without the explain and knowing nothing of your schema is ridiculous

asciilifeform: i do. not. want. to. write. to. disk.

mircea_popescu: phf, possibly, i'm not really THAT close to the core of that beast.

phf: mircea_popescu: i'm not sure that the problem is the recalculate, i think the problem is actually not in in combination with temp calculate

asciilifeform: i still don't grasp why the everliving fuck a 'not in ...' should be any slower than an 'in ....'

mircea_popescu: phf, i expect it'll still re-calc the temp on every pass.

asciilifeform: what am i missing, does mircea_popescu know of another way of thinking, that actually solves the problem with the available tooling at reasonable cost ?

mircea_popescu: yes dood, that's why i said what i said re your way of thinking.

mircea_popescu: no, that was his previous suggestion. what i mean by ACTUAL is that you don't use tmp

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought your algo involved a temporary table

mircea_popescu: phf, it's what i suggested, he said it's just as slow

phf: asciilifeform: other option is to do a left outer join, and then filter by nulls, but i'm trying to recreate the exercise at home so that we're not doing tedious roundtrip through irc

asciilifeform: so far errything i tried, gives same result ( query that promises to run in months, rather than the allotted ~halfhr)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: right, it is designed for ( what i know of ) the db, and thereby lacks many knobs that i'd dearly like to have

mircea_popescu: which is why i never proposed you move.

asciilifeform: ( and if it were to finally rewrite it, i'd ditch sqlism forever and entirely, like a bad dream )

asciilifeform: i.e. idiocy that is not in any way implicit in the mathematical structure of the underlying primitives (e.g. btree) but comes from agglomeration of programmers dropped as children

phf: oh i suppose with tmp as (select distinct unnest(mods) as mods from factors) select * from moduli where idx not in (select mods from tmp);

asciilifeform: i suspect this dunwork on postgres ?

asciilifeform: ( all i want above, is to produce a select of all unphuctored moduli. )

asciilifeform: i have a proggy which wants to select * from moduli where idx not in (select distinct unnest(mods) from factors) ; but this runs in geological time. for no afaik good reason.

asciilifeform: i have a puzzler.

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, amusingly, no further than today walking through town i was explaining to girl the source and meaning of pulgada

mircea_popescu: atm i'm not really doing that ; but for more respectable cut of girlmeat there's ye olde ibms.

mircea_popescu: i'd buy some, give the visiting sluts. sorta like the titbits thing.

asciilifeform: ( i saw'em at civilian electronics stores over here )

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-24#1805245 << if it's something i can gift to newbies and it'll allow them to gpg ; and not very expensive ; probably. ☝︎

asciilifeform: in principle, the gentoo i posted earlier, oughta boot on these.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, diana_coman , et al, other folx who travel -- i'd like to get a picture of whether there is 'market' in l1/l2 for a pre-engentooated ( laugh at the laddel-ism, but it promises to be a somewhat painful process involving crocodile and eeprom writer ) 'c101pa' rockchip lappy . ☟︎☟︎

mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-04-21 19:06 mats: can i get an invoice for 1 q of rockchip service, a tar of the image, and build instructions for that image?

diana_coman: also comment/critique away at it; I'm especially interested to hear if you see any problems with its current structure/missing parts/unclear parts/anything

phf: diana_coman: i meant to say that your protocol has less message types

a111: Logged on 2018-04-24 19:00 phf: it is otherwise a typical gaming protocol, a single header that wraps a range of message types. i don't quite remember but i think existing eulora protocol works somewhat like that, just a smaller number of message types.

phf: well, i'm still going to post a comment about it though on diana_coman's blog, this is more or less thoughts out loud.

phf: there's also parts in the spec that describe the format, and you can infer the behavior from the format, but there isn't explicit description of behavior. for example movement type a.5.23-a.5.28 is presumably for moving things and self around, but without further details it's hard to say how it's supposed to work. so i can't really say much about the internal consistency of the protocol, i.e. are the message types sufficient to perform some set of in g

phf: it is otherwise a typical gaming protocol, a single header that wraps a range of message types. i don't quite remember but i think existing eulora protocol works somewhat like that, just a smaller number of message types. ☟︎

phf: ile types. for text client i will need the format of the map files, i suspect it's whatever crystal space is using, but some formalization is required there.

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-24#1805075 << i did a first pass on the spec over the weekend, but haven't had time to formulate my thoughts. it looks like enough to do a prototype short of three things: handshake process is still work in progress, i noticed that it's missing type of data descriptor values for 4.3.2 (there's a list of data types, but not the values that indicate which type it is), and there's no format description for the encapsulated f ☝︎

diana_coman: asciilifeform, thanks; that kernel recompile I did was precisely for getting support for iptables so it's all set now.

a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 16:19 mircea_popescu: man acting alone is stuck with these "oh, a conclave of idiots bent on self preservation and avoiding the lowly station their idiocy warrants them holds all the power, and i'll act as man alone confronted by governemnt".

asciilifeform: i find it hilarious how they carry on pretending that a crypto lib where ~some~ of the functions are (supposedly..) constant-time, is worth half a shit

BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-23#1804895 << In other RTFM news, finally read the manual for the weather resistant point and shoot I have been playing with here. Will try some Urban safaris this week. ☝︎