log☇︎
364100+ entries in 0.232s
mod6: buildroot + its deps included in this list?
mod6: so just to be clear, so I'm not holding anything up here; hashes of the following tarballs in V: BDB, openssl, and boost. ☟︎
thestringpuller: ;;later tell pete_dushenski Did charlie just steal your article? https://medium.com/@SatoshiLite/eating-the-bitcoin-cake-fc2b4ebfb85e#.7l1nrx2a9
mod6: there's just a ton of stuff to do, 'tis all.
ben_vulpes will sign off on tarballs and v'd hashes thereof.
mod6: i don't think anyone is slacking.
asciilifeform: and my bus is virtually guaranteed to appear before all of this is over.
asciilifeform: mod6: we need to write own everything. long before the end.
ben_vulpes: yeah we might get there and again stan might get hit by a bus tomorrow
mod6: as crazy as that might be
ben_vulpes: and just the likelihood of that happening makes me want those under v.
mod6: in the end.
mod6: yeah, i think we need to write our own crypto lib
ben_vulpes: it's vastly more likely that someone's going to need to crap out a patch for eg openssl than replace it wholesale.
asciilifeform: alternatively the whole orchestra is removable if somebody finds a bag of gold
asciilifeform: openssl is removable as per yesterday's thread (and the three or four similar old threadz)
asciilifeform: boost is - per my current estimate - removable if we're willing to replace boostisms with c++11isms
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: all the deps, really, are on the chopping block
ben_vulpes: unless we want seperate v 'repos' for each dep for distributing patches to those libs
asciilifeform: pressing of cd was perhaps the ONE good idea in openbsd
ben_vulpes: we'll need to v everything
asciilifeform: whole thing gotta ride in one ball
asciilifeform: but yes, fetching tarballs from the net during a build is retarded
asciilifeform: (go and try)
ben_vulpes: our current vendoring goes and pulls that from thebitcoin.foundation, right?
asciilifeform: but notably, the result is NOT something that anybody will dive into and clean up trb-style
asciilifeform: just hash the contents of buildroot's cache dir
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: it's 2 that makes me want to vendor dependency sources.
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 22:01:59; asciilifeform: incidentally the de-glibc-ized trb WILL run on netbsd now!
shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348925 /me has been unsuccessful building trb on any bsd as of yet ☝︎
asciilifeform: possibly also 3) tx value/byte ordering --- but i'd put that under 2
asciilifeform: imho it has strictly two uses, 1) REFERENCE for writing an actual bitcoinatron, which is ~why i asked for it~ 2) keep the continuity flame burning until we can have 1
asciilifeform: i may have said this before, but it bears repeating - some folks might be labouring under unrealistic expectations re: what is possible with the reference trb.
mod6: or simply just a manifest of tarballs/deps required for the one-button-push deployment of trb
asciilifeform: v the tarball hashes. ☟︎
ben_vulpes: how to bridge the gap between 'v means i read and agree' vs. 'we need the source for these deps in the v-tree'?
asciilifeform: if i ever sign a bdb, boost, or openssl as 'honestly reviewed this' please shoot me
ben_vulpes: none of those are really human-verifiable either.
ben_vulpes: dependencies to freeze: bdb, boost, openssl
asciilifeform: this experiment, if anyone recalls, is how i discovered the libc crud to begin with
asciilifeform: incidentally the de-glibc-ized trb WILL run on netbsd now! ☟︎
asciilifeform: because... takes actual work
asciilifeform: BUT i never finished the nand support.
asciilifeform: i even ported it to motherfucking pogo
asciilifeform: i did try netbsd, which has all of the same necessary attributes, BUT lacked essential drivers
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: so buildroot is out of scope then.
asciilifeform: (and, note, there is NO known alternative to it)
asciilifeform: i said that buildroot is not really v-ifiable.
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 21:51:41; mod6: but then alf said it's not ``'V'ifiable'' or something of the kind.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348882 << i said this because a GB of c source IS NOT ANYTHING-IFYABLE << i may have mis-remembered this or conflated it with something else. ☝︎
asciilifeform: rather than it being any kind of long-term answer to ANYTHING.
asciilifeform: i picked buildroot because it was the ONLY practical solution to letting folks who had not dedicated their lives to self-torture build a reasonable self-contained linux for $weirdcpu
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 21:51:10; ben_vulpes: well yes, source of all the deps right? are we biting off buildroot as well?
mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348879 << buildroot, iirc, will load tarballs from a local dir if they are present << yeah I think it does this from the 'dl' directory ☝︎
asciilifeform: you can build it (if lucky) AND THAT'S ABOUT IT
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 21:51:41; mod6: but then alf said it's not ``'V'ifiable'' or something of the kind.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348882 << i said this because a GB of c source IS NOT ANYTHING-IFYABLE ☝︎
mod6: think its worthwhile just to put out the changes for V to have the checking of the hashes in place, while skipping over any "b" that is false? (files that since been deleted?)
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 21:51:10; ben_vulpes: well yes, source of all the deps right? are we biting off buildroot as well?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348879 << buildroot, iirc, will load tarballs from a local dir if they are present ☝︎
BingoBoingo: I might have been a while since I paid attention to Linux kernel versions
assbot: Logged on 20-12-2015 21:25:44; mod6: asciilifeform: ok. i'll think about how to implement these changes to V. right now, im not sure.
asciilifeform: where did this crack smoke even come from
asciilifeform: ferfuxsake 2.4 doesn't run on anything one might care to run today
assbot: Logged on 11-12-2015 02:21:30; mod6: so what I'm hoping to accomplish here is to alter the .mk files that accompany buildroot, so they pull the 3rd party reqs directly from the foundation site instead of wherever they currently point to.
mod6: I think this was the conversation from a few weeks ago: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-12-2015#1340754 ☝︎
asciilifeform: i go pet a pet for an hour and come back to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-12-2015#1348866 ☝︎
ben_vulpes: only question in my mind is if we stick linus' kernel in there too.
ben_vulpes: one could stick source dependencies into some "lib" dir, wire that into the builder, update the scripts and then produce some new patches with the entire world, right?
mircea_popescu: "you're a whore now anyway, baby, so why not suck this cock"
mircea_popescu: this is how the cancer spread in the first place
mircea_popescu: well no. every additional http call to get anothe rbundle is nothing
ben_vulpes: plus yeah, we have V, why not really tax it.
ben_vulpes: simply because every additional http call to get another bundle of source is another weak link, another hole for the night etc
mircea_popescu: of course... not trivial
mircea_popescu: it would be so good if this "import" model of software died.
mod6: but then alf said it's not ``'V'ifiable'' or something of the kind. ☟︎☟︎☟︎
ben_vulpes: i'm leaning towards a 'monorepo'
mod6: my original idea was the former.
ben_vulpes: well yes, source of all the deps right? are we biting off buildroot as well? ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: prolly the latter.
mod6: or re-package the entire source under our own "fork" of these pacakages?
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> freeze 'em. << what is specifically meant by this?
mircea_popescu: in other news, one inch of costa rica coffee, three inches of milk, a pinch of black sugar, three drops of vanilla oil (actual!), four ice-cubes and havana club anejo especial (genuine) qs makes the god-damnedest... bootleg kalhua let's call it/
mod6: so I think programatically I have it worked out on how to make this happen, was about to test last weekend? lemme dig up the logs on this.
mircea_popescu: the question's thorny enough
mircea_popescu: probably will end up having to freeze a specified set.
mod6: I've been in halt mode for a week now, not sure if this has been sorted yet.
mod6: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: what are we to do about the deps for buildroot?
BingoBoingo: "When police responded to the accident, a witness said a police car had caused the damage and fled."
BingoBoingo: "Somehow this soft suburban environment and two witlessly loving parents who trusted friends, relatives, teachers and neighbors with their oldest son, resulted in a violent psychopath. " >> http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=3490
mod6: asciilifeform: ok. i'll think about how to implement these changes to V. right now, im not sure. ☟︎
BingoBoingo: But that's when integer mmol/liter in the body is achived.
BingoBoingo: It's good stuff. Just doctor sort of lithium doses aren't very good for actual hot weather. That much of different salt really messes with the sweating and made for a miserable summer.
jurov: i'm drinking li mineral water too, when feel like it
BingoBoingo: It literally does that too
BingoBoingo: when used that way
BingoBoingo: Lithium's also the very rare psych drug that actually reduces suicide risk
BingoBoingo: But as long as not too much safe.
BingoBoingo: jurov: AHA. I was just thinking something to reduce the voltages a bit, though too much lithium takes the action potentials up to 111eleventy!!! and seizures.