351400+ entries in 0.223s
mircea_popescu: and yes
this means
that julie slaveface doesn't get
to elect who's gonna
take her maidenhood. fuck her.
mircea_popescu: because
the 200 are stronger
than
the 12 ; whereas
the 10k are weaker
than fucking cox cable.
mircea_popescu: . now
there's 200 masters, and 12 cable companies, and no fucking monopoly.
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:25:19; jurov: well, say
titanium mine used for specialized stuff runs out and new one has
to be developed. who pays for
this?
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373607 << it's
the same money, but in fewer hands.
think of it
this way : currently,
there's 10`000 "family units" in
town X making "the decision"
to buy cable. as a result...
there's
two shitty companies and a de facto monopoly.
transform
those families into slaves and servants.
they no longer get
their own house, but live in
the house oftheir masters, at
their disposals
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:23:54; jurov:
they do use majority of stuff off
the shelf from reliable suppliers, and
these suppliers rely on stable overall volume in mass market
mircea_popescu: fucking roman empire got dates across
the sea in
time
to start a war. wtf already,
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:21:55; jurov: imagine in addition of unique components, having
to orchestrate dedicated supplies of material
BingoBoingo: Also
the blue pogoplug is
the worthless one for our cause, right?
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:10:05; jurov: yes, it does. but it does not come out of
tap every 20km
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:52:05; ben_vulpes: mod6: press of a given head should result in
the *exact same*
tree under all V's, as i understand it
mircea_popescu: NACK.
This renders hundreds of millions of dollars worth of equipment useless. It will leave a bad
taste in
the miners' mouth. I also
think
this is an unnecessary fix
to a problem
that won't exist in
the long
term. ASIC mining hardware will sooner or later hit fundamental physical limits and become commoditized. Decentralization of mining will naturally follow."
mircea_popescu: letting bitfury & friends eat 100mn in unrecoupable engineering costs would provide exactly
the correct lesson as
to what it's a good idea
to say and when it's a good idea
to shut
the fuck up and
toe
the line.
mircea_popescu: This is literally no harder
to get consensus for
than a hardforked block size increase.
This is probably easier, in fact, since it impacts fewer people negatively."
mircea_popescu: "@transcats Memory-hard PoW hasn't been invented yet, so we can't implement
that.
☟︎☟︎ assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:23:44; guruvan: mod6: yah - I don't know anything about V - but I'll figur ethat out and get
this in
there
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 21:49:24; mod6: ;;later
tell pete_dushenski pretty neat ice scuptures. i'd like
to see an ice sculpture of a guy with a sharpie in pooper.
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 21:50:08; mod6:
to get
the level of detail required for
that, it'd probably need
to be 50' high. all
the better. :D
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 20:41:15; mircea_popescu: sez so right in
the merchant of venice!
punkman: well you can put
them in a jail cell if you prefer, but I ain't paying for it
pete_dushenski: i'm content with
that conclusion. now go get some sleep !
jurov: if civilised world ends and proves it was only an illusion,
then perhaps i reconsider
pete_dushenski: it's actually
the minority of
the world
that
thinks you can "talk it
through" and "share fee-fees"
pete_dushenski: jurov: nah, outside of
the "civilised world", killing your enemies is pretty common.
☟︎☟︎ assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 20:31:38; ascii_shmoocon: and holyfuq are
these
talks snorefest
jurov: irc you and mircea_popescu expect power
to hang or stake certain people..
that's pretty close
to "all" end
☟︎ pete_dushenski: i
think
the issue here might be with
the conception
that power is binary and
that its centres must contain all or none. it isn't.
there are gradations. so even if bitcoin is very, very valuable, it won't be sufficient
to constitute
the entirety of
the world. you can't eat bits.
jurov: i'm lost in
this, you foresee feudal society,
then what people bestow, dunno
jurov: where is
the power center?
pete_dushenski: relatively speaking, sure. within
the minds of
the many, many "people" who bestow it upon
them.
the scrillion branches of xtianity are no different in
this regard. and
they all have some measure of power.
jurov: you call
them "centers of power"? fo srs
pete_dushenski: so while bitcoin might be more politically centralised,
there's a whole lot else out
there in
the wild
pete_dushenski: jurov: i guess i don't see
that all
the world's power ~has~
to be "in" bitcoin.
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD
ticker | Best bid: 388.4, Best ask: 388.42, Bid-ask spread: 0.02000, Last
trade: 388.4, 24 hour volume: 74062.16019306, 24 hour low: 352.5, 24 hour high: 392.5, 24 hour vwap: None
jurov: to go back
to original issue, how can multiple centers of power exist in bitcoin?
☟︎ pete_dushenski: cancers expands ad infinitum
too. until
the host dies and
the worms move in.
jurov: and
these limits went way bigger recently
jurov: by your
theory vladivostok should be self governed, or by japan
jurov: pls explain
that
to every russian ruler in past 200 years
pete_dushenski: so having geographic divisions still makes sense, even across cultural lines if people can't be persuaded
to get along via market forces
pete_dushenski: still, while communication has obviously flattened
the world, and geography matters not on
the internet, distance still matters for supplies, food, equipment, etc
jurov: what's
to stop
them?
jurov: people always
try
to overstep dunbar number
jurov: but
then it's hierarchy
jurov: feudalism in
the past was decentralised only because of distances and communication problems
☟︎ pete_dushenski: jurov: seems impractical for one ruler
to manage
that much complexity
pete_dushenski: within feudalism, of course profit is still ~a~ motive, but it's not
the only (not can it really ever be)
jurov: and my reply was
that dependence is best strategy
pete_dushenski: aha.
that's where
the "the future isn't hyper-capitalism, it's feudalism"
thread comes in.
jurov: what is hard
to imagine, how
to achieve
this
together with profit as a motive
jurov: so not at all hard
to imagine.
jurov: you could fix "skoda 120" at home with a pit and basic
tools
jurov: funny
that communism actually achieved
this.
pete_dushenski: with
the amount of fiat sloshing around, it's hard
to imagine
this niche-or-nothing/15k-only approach coming
to dominate industries and manufacturing sectors any
time soon, but
the
thermodynamics do point
to
this as a far more (whisper it) sustainable solution
pete_dushenski: jurov: i can see it. and while i agree
there would be
trade-offs (less reliability, more difficulty find parts perhaps), i
think
that
the benefits would more
than compensate and
that product designers would adapt
themselves accordingly (eg. making repairs possible without specialised equipment and using more readily available parts)
☟︎ jurov: *shrug* i can understand,
the world is overcrowded, it's
tempting
to dream of putting stupid people "to
their place". whether
that comes
to pass, i doubt.
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 10-02-2015 11:47:29; punkman: re: 10m people, what kind of world can you run on
that considering current complexity?
jurov: for
the gasoline
the difference in availability does not cause big problem. but as
the
tech stack up,
the effect multiplies
jurov: for example babbage did not have
the elements and had
to develop precision machinery himself, what contributed
to his failure
jurov: because
there were mass produced relays/tubes/transistors available
pete_dushenski: jurov:
they were when computers filled
the basements of university buildings, and
there were only dozens or hundreds
then. so again, why not ?
ben_vulpes: so
they're a glorified waste-processing plant.
jurov: and would be
the computer even feasible when only anough vacuum
tubes/xsistors will be developed only for
top 15k
to have radio receiver?
☟︎ punkman: "In 2007, Nucor recycled nearly 10 million cars in its production processes,
the equivalent of one SUV every four seconds."
ben_vulpes: steel mill doesn't make sense
to operate unless operated continually, no small-batch fabber is going
to do so.
pete_dushenski: jurov: aha. well, manufacturers still made computers before everyone had a desktop in
their home, and so
too can
they once "everyone" has nothing more
than phablets.
jurov: "of course you can" - at
this point i sent mircea_popescu
to grow si monocrystals and use hf
pete_dushenski: you
think
the king henry v's crown benefitted from mass market ruby mining ?
pete_dushenski: that's
the whole point. some
things might be "easier" with mass market consumers in
the picture, but
there are costs
to
this ease. arguably, excessive costs. and costs
that would readily be borne if
the mass market went byebye
jurov: you can't have custom "special" "high performance" whole supply line from mine up
to
the product
☟︎ jurov: well, i don't see
the "trickle down" as optional
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: hard
to make a small steel mill ? yes. impossible ? no.
☟︎ pete_dushenski: new one
takes its place, maybe
this
takes
time, maybe not
ben_vulpes: even $robofab i worked for one
time had
their castings done by a casting company.
jurov: it will lead
to disruption in any case
jurov: but
they have small volume