log☇︎
34100+ entries in 0.291s
mircea_popescu: this is the core of shipwrighting as a science
assbot: Logged on 02-03-2016 18:44:56; kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420455 < correct. bitcoin, as is, is not a toy and not for idiots. pretty much #b-a mantra.
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420349 << perhaps my holdings aren't significant enough to have any weight on the issue, but nontheless I as a BitBet shareholder agree with the decision to draw attention to whatever issue at the expense of a few months of dividends. At the very least it can be seen as a marketing expense, BitBet being the catalyst to war against something truly rotten in bitcoin, something th ☝︎
kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420455 < correct. bitcoin, as is, is not a toy and not for idiots. pretty much #b-a mantra. ☝︎☟︎
BingoBoingo: jurov: If it makes you feel any better as an embedded reporter in this conflict I sometimes wonder if, like those reporters Bush sent into Iraq and coming away with a polished view because I am not yet made to sleep in the hills with nagant and donkey.
jurov: *shrug* i know you want some insights as to the actual war, but whatever ricocheted shots came my way (ddos, tx problems), i solved myself in anti-#b-a ways without learning anything about the enemy
mircea_popescu: jurov> it's business is much closer to this goal than bitbet << the argument, while in itself respectable, very much sadly not how things work. the jew on a ship, should the ship catch fire, will be a fireman whether he signed up for voyage as jew or as fireman.
mircea_popescu: jurov companies fold all the time. this is a thing. if in the course of their business they fail to make money, they'll lose exactly as much money as they lost.
mircea_popescu: consider it a sort of coke machine for miner rigs. inasmuch as you do exactly what they'd have done, you can keep it. else - reorg.
mircea_popescu: i can appreciate gut feel, but it's no sort of argument as to anything.
jurov: yes, because as opposed to mircea_popescu i did read the code closely and it does maintain chains of unconfirmed transactions
mircea_popescu: so far - it goes about as well as you'd expect.
kakobrekla: as i mentioned before, if you really believe that miners are conspiring against bitbet (via known outputs and amounts) then its game over for bb.
mircea_popescu: in other news, https://bitbet.us/ << bitbet payouts suspended as seen there.
mircea_popescu: so... no. you can't solve the problem of fiat through technological means, be they bitcoin or anything else. the same people that abandoned the fiat to "mysterious entity" will just as readily abandon bitcoin, and their own asshole.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i've been thinking about it, but i don't think this is actually resolvable. as it happens - the "magically working network - we don't know how it works" thing is much more appealing to the average joe than you know, "this is my node. i will defend it with my life". what life, are you kidding, got sitcoms to watch and shit. ☟︎
PeterL: but what is the problem? seems the networked worked as advertised?
mircea_popescu: so that the problem can be fully exposed, in detailed, solid fact, so as to be handwaved by people.
mircea_popescu: the reward's halving, they regard their capital investment as ~worthless, and we have crossed bitcoin event horizon.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla> one thing that goes through my mind is that trb/mps << this is true, but let me clarify that An set of txn were broadcast through a set of > 1k distinct peers. most of which i don't regard as peers in any sense, but nevertheless they did get to hear about them from my own nodes.
kakobrekla: BingoBoingo feel free to remove the one that is br0ken and does not validate as far as im concerned.
kakobrekla: most nodes are idiots that run prb as built by core team
mircea_popescu: which at the time i did buy as a sufficient explanation.
kakobrekla: i dont see the events that took place as randomly impossible
mircea_popescu: more generally, you can't bring arguments as to what the standard is on the basis of "look what this implementation does". the illustrative case of this being the four men in a dark room with an elephant.
mircea_popescu: what, you think asciilifeform accepted it as stated because he's afraid of me or something ?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla but it's not about me, per se, it's about the thing, such as it is.
asciilifeform: a good chunk of the 'protocol' as i pictured it, turned out to be... promise.
mircea_popescu: by and large, very broadly speaking, and insasmuch as a "bitcoin protocol" even exists at all - it says that 0 fee txn aren't relayed or included. now, how this is implemented in practice... w/e.
kakobrekla: they relay but not as well.
mircea_popescu: it is breaking the protocol inasmuch as a protocol exists.
PeterL: I still dun see why you jump to the conclusion of miner holding blocks, maybe they rebroadcast the transaction as they moved it from "0fee waiting line" to "now including these txen" when they had held it long enough for the wait time to increase its priority?
asciilifeform: and the remainder was sourced, i think, from something mircea_popescutronic, as almost all of my coin in fact is.
mircea_popescu: and, ironically, the substantial proof that there was nothing wrong with any of them PER SE, was that a tx that, as per the protocol, should not even have been relayable made it into a fucking block
PeterL: I guess I can't complain too much about this bitbet blunder, the "extra winnings" I got from the bet was higher than my proportion of the loss as a bitbet shareholder (unless this tanks the share price too)
mircea_popescu: this is fine, but also rather irrelevant. migth as well tell darwin he's just being anticlerical.
PeterL: mircea_popescu: so the Jeb Bush bet winners were sent their winnings twice? Does that 16 btc go as a loss on the bitbet books?
jurov: fghj: mod6: also, do you have any hints as what leaves to press and add into lxr?
ben_vulpes: i have had two beers and a glass of wine since 5pm and none of that has made me nearly as ill as this line of cpp
ben_vulpes: as reported in the grey whore!
mircea_popescu: pretty much the only way to handle centralization in mining as it is designed is through periodically picking up the fattest pig and throwing it through a glass pane.
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1419829 << with phf's patch (are you going to post that to the ML or shall i?), my post-clean compile takes 1m 16s << im not aware of phf's patch. i did recompile with shiva when it was first introduced, didn't add or subtract any compile time as far as I could tell. ☝︎
asciilifeform: whereas when i was doing it as a boy it worked on one 486 box but not another, mostly-identical one.
trinque: your deeds will go out soon as he's able
mircea_popescu: nah, usg doesn't figure into this as much as a prince albert.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla im still thinking what the best solution to this would be, but as far as bitbet is concerned quite likely something like that.
mircea_popescu: as per http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning/
kakobrekla: anyway, for as long as the original tx is not included you must be careful not to spend those inputs in another tx. even if that means forever.
mircea_popescu: about three hours ago, tx B, with the same outputs as An, but with different inputs was broadcast. this tx was visible in the mempool throujghout the network as normal, and was included in a block in half an hour.
kakobrekla: you pay out bet A with inputs Ia and sufficient fee. tx gets 'lost', not confirmed. people bitch. you post the tx hex so people them selfs can re-broadcast it. however for as long as that tx is not included in the block you can not spend those same Ia inputs.
mircea_popescu: as a result, tx A2 was created, monday, spending the same inputs, paying a fee, and was broadcast.
kakobrekla: its not impossible you will make a tx from some inputs, which will be 'forgotten' and say fuck you [i only a slight problem so far as long as the tx hex is published and can be rebroadcast] and then later on use those same inputs for another tx [i have a larger problem with that]
kakobrekla: anyone could have done it as long as it fools you that it has been 'forgotten'.
mircea_popescu: understand : at the time you saw it as "broadcast" it was ALREADY included in a block
kakobrekla: so somebody else had it as well.
kakobrekla: actually no need to rebroadcast in that case, you can just include in block - would not see it as uncofirmed at all.
mircea_popescu: as long as the competitor isn't mined, what's the hurry ?
trinque: yeah, just a matter of taking the deed bundle txt, performing sha256 and using that as the privkey, generating a pubkey and address from that
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: snsa is supposed to drag phuctor as a sled behind it
mircea_popescu: anyway. bill's up, i guess im closing down this phuctor server and eating the 2 month bill as cdb ?
asciilifeform: as showcased in, e.g., rotor, etc.
mircea_popescu: a nothing! i can't as much as have someone to clean the fucking floors.
mircea_popescu: but on the other hand - i can't fucking hire people for the love of everfuck. there is no such thing as a lowly bank clerk in bitcoin. everyone must be at above-phd level of tech awareness - yea, i know that doesn't cut it to be in b-a, fine, fuck you all, there are STILL 100k phds spewed out the world over who think themselves as they add to the pool of millions floating around that they are pdh-level! -
mircea_popescu: which is about as nice as all the derpage post-snowden.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2016#1419182 << what, exactly, is a 'lovedog' ? new word for skinny asian chick kept as pet ?? ☝︎
SuchWow: Nothing I do in this chan requires "trust" as far as I can see
SuchWow: i certainly started watching that chart for fun tho, as i always do for btc/ltc/doge, a few months back
SuchWow: as i said, i enjoy our bi-yearly talks lol
SuchWow: 'business as usual, etc'
SuchWow: which is fine, as she is the only candidate giving us the highest probability of continued stability
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2016 09:04:23; cazalla: i get more cuddles and kisses, but he only turns the tears on if mum leaves, not when dad goes out, doesn't seem to care as much
SuchWow: the hotels would almost rather you not gamble as much as before
SuchWow: it's becoming a destination resort town, with gambling offered as just one of several differnt options, no more special weighting
SuchWow: and back when they respected poker as well
SuchWow: won a $3300 jackpot in 05, and had free room offers from Harrahs (caesars) for 2 years as a result
SuchWow: yeah i found that interesting as well
SuchWow: [08:49:46] <SuchWow> (just as you literally don't know me, at all lol)
cazalla: SuchWow, even if it was the second coming, idgaf as it will inflate forever
cazalla: it's as hard as it is enjoyable
cazalla: i get more cuddles and kisses, but he only turns the tears on if mum leaves, not when dad goes out, doesn't seem to care as much ☟︎
cazalla: ben_vulpes, good, missus looks bigger the second time around for some reason, prenatal appt with nurse today confirmed that as well
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> if so much as 1 packet per billion is valid. << this sounds like the ticket.
asciilifeform: but doesn't work as well as i'd like, not line speed (uses dumb bignum)
asciilifeform: if so much as 1 packet per billion is valid.
ben_vulpes: because the counterparty in this conversation is not thinking of gossipd as a device but a proggy that runs on a computer.
asciilifeform: (the ultimate thermonuclear version of this is to ~randomly generate~ a cpu arch, instantiate on an fpga ~and generate a compiler~, and compile for THAT! and i was very sad as a student to discover that one cristina cifuentes invented this long before i did)
phf: i thought whole exercise is to produce byte to byte equivalent binaries, as another step in verification process. "sealed vpatches -> press -> binary -> shasum"
phf: now that there was a suggestion of treating specific openbsd version as baseline, i think problem was that i built in on one openbsd and tried running on another
ben_vulpes: https://github.com/ethereum/EIPs/blob/master/EIPS/eip-2.mediawiki and https://github.com/ethereum/EIPs/blob/master/EIPS/eip-7.md, although the latter is only noted as a hardfork on a blog page
mircea_popescu: besides, as per satoshi's argument ("no, don't bring it on"), might not be the smartest thing in the world to give drepper incentive to exist on bsd anyway
asciilifeform: now rotor is not ~quite~ as necessary on bsd, because drepper is absent there. BUT we still need deterministic nailed-down toolchain, esp. for when we finally do the deterministic binary thing.
phf: my current goal is to have better compartmentalization, like have a gaming machine (i.e. libretto running dos, i've been unwinding with ~~'95 games), a work machine (i.e. a thing that can run intellij and which is compromised for all the practical purposes) and a b-a machine whatever that evolves into, because i don't think the future of a computer as a progrock moog station is panning out
phf: i found my way here to begin with because i was following your loperos project and your conclusions were then correct, only to be re-confirmed as part of b-a research
jurov: As long as you use the proper hand for each.
phf: it does, and it has very elaborate python plugin (can be had separately as "pycharm")
asciilifeform used 'idea' as a student, many years ago.
ben_vulpes: sure as hell beats drinking the horror at my own existence away
phf: i think i wanted to figure out how to package openssl/db/boost as buildroot native packages, rather then doing adhoc, which is a task in itself
trinque: decent as a learning tool and not much else.
mircea_popescu: fortunately, it is not MERELY the atomic bomb that is rare and costly and as difficult to produce as a battleship.