log☇︎
33800+ entries in 0.361s
PeterL: danielpbarron if mircea_popescu had sent the funds to his wallet and spent them on hookers and blow, would that count as fraud or would you let him asses that as "the cost of doing business"?
nubbins`: ^ as admin of CoinBr, the current situation directly affects jurov. maybe that's why jurov and kako are the only ones not 100% complicit in this scheme
jurov: hanbot was not directly involved in many frauds, but raising hell from her is wseen as good and proper
trinque: there's a difference between offending someone with the truth as a matter of tactics, and doing it to the exclusion of sense
nubbins`: Professional does not imply any restriction of form.ii You are free to be as offensive, annoying, disparaging, crass, crude or indecorous you feel the need or inclination to be. This includes any and all comments that in other, non-professional venues may be regarded as racist, sexist, chauvinist, fascist or whatever else. Pros don't give a shit, it's the clueless twits and assorted pretenders that do.
asciilifeform: i could see a ' bbet shareholders believe that bbet is mismanaged ' angle, but ~it is THEIR business~ and not mine, and their one option is to get off the bus, as per the articles.
nubbins`: so it's okay to commit fraud, as long as the business you're defrauding is on your exchange?
trinque: as for my perspective, the tools either work or they don't. the WoT, deedbot, forum, so on, sorts itself or doesn't.
nubbins`: he's a small, sad man, nothing more than a mark karpeles with better book-learning. lucked his way into a windfall by recognizing bitcoin as an opportunity early on; just hasn't fallen on the sword yet.
danielpbarron: it's not clear that Mircea is wrong. It's not clear kako agrees he's wrong. As for the others going along with your rabble rousing, that only makes me suspicious of them.
PeterL: so, as I have been watching my trb node sync the past three months (am I the only person who thinks this takes way too long?) it seems like it spends alot of time trying to connect to nodes and timing out?
nubbins`: his ad hominem attacks (called my wife an ugly broad!) reflected quite poorly on him as a person and as a leader of anything meaningful
nubbins`: here's the straight dope. we all knew from the start that mp doesn't care when he's wrong, he just bulldozes. countless examples exist, i don't care to find them for you. kako agrees that the expense is fraudulent, jurov agrees, many others agree; the only ones who don't agree are you, who seem quite willing to let kako take the hit in order to maintain peace, and hanbot, who obviously doesn't count as an opinion
PeterL: in michigan we don't even register as a party
PeterL: today is presidential primary here in mich, I havn't decided how to vote, half tempted to write in Rand Paul as a protest against all the idiots still running
nubbins`: asciilifeform you read the logs as well as i. all are aware that the accusation remains unanswered
nubbins`: she's about as currently relevant as TAT
asciilifeform: i don't have an mpex account; am powerless to move so much as one share of anything; etc.
mircea_popescu: but as it is, i'm at best useful as a seed. tho from years of reading the logs it's apparent to me seed-cultural is actually a lot more sorely needed than seed-capital, but that's aside.
asciilifeform: as in, on YOUR box.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1426493 << block explorers as centralized www servers are retarded. ☝︎
asciilifeform: phhhreeeee as in fleaaadom !1111
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> what out-of-wot advice is this? and why send the wire twice instead of calling your drinking buddies who /use the same bank/ to ask if /their/ wires are in the habit of simply not showing up and what they've done in the past in the circumstances <<< you don't mean my drinking buddies who a) would take ANY explanation just as long as it doesn't mean gotta get off ass and b) would not be willing, broadly spea ☟︎
ben_vulpes: bitbet's addresses are not so much public as waved eagerly to the world, and mpex' barely advertised, and i'd split my sides laughing at the notion there was only the one public mpex address
ben_vulpes: near as i can tell, mircea_popescu went to pop a mining cartel and only caught a sybil.
BingoBoingo: Well, there's a ~15-20 foot tree that grew up as a weed and was neglected. Before taking it all the way down will convert it to pointed stake as I believe alf suggested as an idea in much earlier discussion
trinque: this one sha256's the bundle (all messages of that hour separated by single \n), uses that as privkey
nubbins`: you owe me a satoshi if it feeds the same address as mine
nubbins`: hanbot i'll take that as an apology, you're probably not so bad underneath that rough exterior
hanbot: anyway i'm not sure if i oughta take jurov's rating as a wholesale endorsement. advise as ya like.
nubbins`: FTR, calling my wife an ugly broad hurts just about as much as calling my left elbow a bicycle
mircea_popescu: but that aside, i did mean about the ugly broad and the general waster attitude. who knows, maybe discovering how little credit he carries with the people he likes and who he flattered himself into seeing as equals provides the much needed impetuus to make something of himself.
nubbins`: his right as, uh.. whatever he is
nubbins`: danielpbarron also, as a lord, your clicks don't put me towards the off position at all
hanbot: jurov hehe what're you doing with such loaded questions? mind you, i'm not suggesting you're wrong for disagreeing or asking or anything of the sort. i'm just curious about your judgment of what i see as a guy on full tilt.
danielpbarron: nubbins`, i'm trying to give you an out to the negative rating i fear i will eventually have to give you, and I don't mean that as a threat, just that at a certain point what you are doing is spamming, and i like to read this log every day and have the power to at least turn the nozzle two clicks towards the off position
cazalla: he won't cash your stock warrant as he has you on ignore? it's clear such a request can be relayed to him if required
nubbins`: sigh as loud as you want, he's not gonna read it or respond to it in any way
nubbins`: "dump the ugly broad" is the best popescu can come up with as a rebuttal to legitimate accusations of fraud
mircea_popescu: re prev point : so yeah, most strong nodes will have multiple interfaces they look at. so most people (who know, as opposed of feeling like they know) aren't necessariyl surprised by ~some degree~ of sybiling.
asciilifeform: at any rate, i have long seen nodes as an astonishingly weak point, which is why i pressed the whole pogo thing
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i will attend to this as soon as i get home.
mircea_popescu: davout i don't mean it as an attack or anything. and the question of exploring the negative is open now and will remain open until spec.
asciilifeform: sybil octopus can get between victim and miners as a whole. and yes, this is enabled by the concentration of hash power in a shithole kingdom.
nubbins`: just as well to ignore
davout: thinking about it, I interpret the fact that A1 did not (on first attempt) get relayed to my node as indicative of nodes *not* being merely facades for some sort of 'super-node'
mircea_popescu: i also said as much at that exact time, in this very chan.
asciilifeform: (miners ~are~ misbehaving, as, e.g., i witnessed with my lee sedol bet. but this is separate.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as discussed earlier, it is uniquely easy to do this to bbet.
nubbins`: suppose i run two nodes, one a member of Nk and one a member of Nm. As long as my nodes are running proper sanity checks on each other (i.e. passing tx's between them), which obviously they should be because i'm not running SPV nodes, mp's "mathematical" argument falls apart at the seams
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've been lifting the rocks for a while. but i do it with sapper's spade , but as i understand you did it with bbet's foot ?
danielpbarron: nubbins`> BingoBoingo what's next?! signed & ready to go << link the signed encrypted thing as a text file (on dpaste or your own site) in a later tell to Bingo
asciilifeform: ah this is re: whether blocks are being withheld as per mircea_popescu's hypothesis.
danielpbarron: well i don't masquerade as a finance expert while making my shoes..
nubbins`: wow, he called me a shoemaker as an insult earlier
danielpbarron: as to whether the listing agreement was violated, I hope for the sake of myself and other shareholders that bbet isn't liquidated at the specified price of 0.00001 btc per share
trinque: I butter mine on both, use as a transportation device
nubbins`: speaking as a man of no religion, you understand.
nubbins`: danielpbarron as is your perogative; however, in a battle of trust vs facts, i'd rather stick with facts
nubbins`: i don't think anyone's seriously floating that as a solution
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: i must confess that if mircea_popescu was conducting an experiment to demonstrate the brokkenness of bitcoin, under the banner of s.nsa, he would have put it as expense in s.nsa statement.
nubbins`: for its novelty as well as its impropriety
nubbins`: you're not passing this off as being principled
nubbins`: 4.3. Should BitBet fail to execute this Agreement, as for instance by but not limited to breaching 3.2.h above, MPEx will notify the named individuals of their breach and may, at its sole discretion, suspend the asset from trading thus activating the liquidation of the asset.
asciilifeform: as far as i can tell.
PeterL: anybody want to guess as to whether one of the winning bets on the JebBush bet was owned by mircea_popescu? who got the extra 7btc payment?
nubbins`: i can't see bitbet staying around as a going concern if mp doesn't eat crow
nubbins`: just as long as we're all on the same page here that the 17 btc is fraudulent and mp is refusing to admit his fraud, i don't really have anything else to add, aside from shredding the ridiculous rebuttals put forth so far
asciilifeform: anyway nubbins` i srsly have nfi why the 17 was put in as bitbet expense, ask mircea_popescu, i'm not his mother.
nubbins`: and if that statement doesn't cover march AND february, then s.bbet has failed reporting requirements as per mpex regs
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning << as per.
nubbins`: i can't tell if you're advocating letting the fraud stand as the only sensible option
nubbins`: "sorry guise, turns out, as you ALL KNOW, i made a mistake that would be interpreted as fraud if it stands"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu works as a pope.
asciilifeform: i got enough of that as a kid.
nubbins`: as to why, i find his worldview repulsive
nubbins`: so we can explain why A1 was held for so long before being mined, and we can explain why A2-A4 vanished, and we can explain why mp thought that sending B was a good idea, but we now see that it was simply not a good idea because mp did not understand the payment protocol as well as he thought he did, and now we've got a 17 btc fraudulent expense on bitbet's ledger
PeterL: nubbins`> go to qntra article and see how long it takes for someone to even MENTION the obvious cheapo explanation << if you look at the timestamps, it was just a couple hours before we started complaining, which was pretty much as soon as I got around to reading the article in question
asciilifeform: davout: 'A second transaction was broadcast, spending the same inputs as A1, including a fee of 0.0001'
nubbins`: Should BitBet fail to execute this Agreement, as for instance by but not limited to breaching 3.2.h above, MPEx will notify the named individuals of their breach and may, at its sole discretion, suspend the asset from trading thus activating the liquidation of the asset.
adlai is fairly certain bitbet has been "mixing bets" for ~ever. isn't this how the whole "bitbet as tumbler" story was supposed to work? ie, the blockchain tells a different story than the addresses listed on the site
nubbins`: as it stands, mp's debt is bitbet's debt.
adlai: nubbins`: it does change the picture from "fraud! abdication! blood of tyrants!" to "mp made a mistake when acting as coin-handler for a corporation"
asciilifeform: nubbins`: what does the listing agreement say re: what to do, as a shareholder, if you think mp has been afflicted by martian brain parasites and broke the agreement ?
mircea_popescu: as it isn't, per your theory, the case that "Whole world saw". just the set in question.
gribble: no, it tells everyone what you think you saw, and as we've seen today, what you think you saw couldn't fill a hat.
nubbins`: ;;echo no, it tells everyone what you think you saw, and as we've seen today, what you think you saw couldn't fill a hat.
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 16:24:11; mircea_popescu: but in any case, there is a substantial difference between "i think X on the basis of my personal experience" and "mp said x on the basis of bitbet experience as documented on qntra". exactly of the sort and caliber as the difference between "i think there exist alien" and "here's pictures of man walking on the moon", in fact.
nubbins`: ^ this is what you'll get as a response no matter how well thought-out your explanation is
nubbins`: ^ as you can see, lots of hand-waving and rhetoric is the best response mp can dig up when under fire
mircea_popescu: PeterL this statement would be a lot less ridiculous had the "simplest explanation" been actually formed as the article even encourages the reader to do!
mircea_popescu: but in any case, there is a substantial difference between "i think X on the basis of my personal experience" and "mp said x on the basis of bitbet experience as documented on qntra". exactly of the sort and caliber as the difference between "i think there exist alien" and "here's pictures of man walking on the moon", in fact. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: as if everyone's a little bit everything and it all evens out or something, dunno.
nubbins`: that's the basis of my as yet unanswered fraud accusation
mircea_popescu: this is a minor point. there are better bits. such as - that an transaction known but not advertised constitutes the simple definition of "transaction withholding".
nubbins`: asciilifeform kakobrekla is probably wondering what the future holds for him, as he is currently being forced to decide between PGP signing a fraudulent financial statement or losing his livelihood. i envy him not.
mircea_popescu: (imagine, as a subtopic, the wonder of computing if hardware came with guarantee "unless used for uinappropiate purpose" and then coders had to write code that didn't void any warranties.)
asciilifeform: ram exists as cache of disk.
mircea_popescu: well it's certainly voiding the warranty, as that's not what the ram is for.
mircea_popescu: anyway. 2 has a much more obvious solution, if as discussed not exactly trivial and wtf are fibonacci stacks.