330000+ entries in 0.2s
jurov: ikr?
the vacuum doesn't compensate for
the added weight
jurov: babies drink from spout?
til
pete_dushenski: also a
thermos is 2x weight of water bottle. different beast really. like macbook air and og mac portable.
jurov: or whatitscalled, a
teat?
jurov: but
thermoses don't have
the right comforter
assbot: Logged on 24-02-2016 20:50:38; pete_dushenski:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-02-2016#1414273 << indeed. apparently
there are
the $40 water bottles
that are now all
the rage. i only discovered
them at 'organic grocer' last week, vommited in mouth a bit at
the mere prospect of such an object at such a price, only
to discover
that
they're on every desk and every gym bag already.
mircea_popescu: if
this were how deductions worked
there'd be no need of politicians
mircea_popescu: inasmuch as
the enemy can delude himself into
that, he can delude himself into anything and is warmly welcome
to it.
assbot: Logged on 24-02-2016 21:09:39; mircea_popescu: but once
this is done,
the "network outside of gossipd" becomes a mere fiction.
mircea_popescu: i am not prepared
to admit usg ownership over as much as
the fucking bathroom of
the oval office.
phf: i always
thought of it as more of a backchannel, i.e.
there's
the dead drops with
their own rules of engagement and
then
there's also
the mail you get in post.
mircea_popescu: and as a more general point : we aren't sealing ourselves off in an ideal world (see
the "island of Bitcoin" / "let's get a geographical unit started"
threads
throughout log history). we are simply constructing indefeatable corruption.
phf: oh
the outside packets are
traveling over gossip
too, by means of gossip relays
mircea_popescu: the whole point of gossipd, as i was
trying
to explain it
to
that
torhead dude, is
that you can't know.
phf: will b-a node, once gossip enabled make connections
that are not routed over gossip?
mircea_popescu: you can't say
this is
the case for any one node in particular.
mircea_popescu: but once
this is done,
the "network outside of gossipd" becomes a mere fiction.
☟︎ phf: well a gossip connection is already a secret handshake, even if it's not wot rated, a concept of
trust can be applied
to it, even if negatively. it's a backchannel for b-a node communication
mircea_popescu: and
this is not merely a discussion of nodes in
terms of internet ips.
this is a discussion of everything. usg can not currently know which of its agents is closer
to me
than
to washington. closer
to
their wife
than
to washington. closer
to
their purse, a la force,
than
to washington.
mircea_popescu: on which
topic,
the earlier discussion with asciilifeform re miners is quite apropos.
mircea_popescu: it is a solution
to make
that epsilon unknowable
to any degree of certainty, by anyone.
mircea_popescu: and gossipd is specifically not a solution
to hermetically seal
the network.
mircea_popescu: this cloud will never be clarified, or separated.
the space where usg can reliably live (or, for
that matter, chinag, russiag, dpkg, anyone-g) is, more or less, zero.
mircea_popescu: for all you know, i peer with a "network at large" node, making it
thus
trb-node-one-removed.
mircea_popescu: i will not empower
this. NOBODY, including his
top general and his own daughter, is his. i own, unknown, perhaps, and or all of
these.
mircea_popescu: phf
the separation between "trb nodes" and "the rest of
the network" comes of
the same sort of usg-enabling fiction where somehow obama owns
the land and i live on it by his permision.
phf: a gossip solution is
to hermetically seal
the network, but some nodes presumably still need
to
talk
to elsewhere, i.e. not l1 or l2,
those are
the ones
that still have
to deal with spam
transactions
mircea_popescu: ie, you become an unpriviledged creditor of
theirs, and
that's
that. if
they go bankrupt in a decade, you lose
the house.
mircea_popescu: in other, unrelated lulz : derpy consturctor advertises apts in new building. so i have
them called, mostly because i know it'll deliver gold. it does. 1 room apts, 470k pesos (~30k usd) ; 2 room apts, 2.1mn pesos (~150k usd). NO
TITLE.
☟︎☟︎ phf: l1 or l2 runs
trb, where behavior can be improved. better sync mechanisms, bandwidth/cpu conservative network activity, etc. anyone in
the wot can also be punished for abuse, i.e. if asciilifeform starts sending me gigs of bogus
transactions, and it's not a
test and he can't be reasoned with, etc.
phf: all
those ips
that are not l1 or l2
mircea_popescu: phf is your definition of "network at large" as "all
those ips
that are not connected
to a node connected
to someone in l2" ?
assbot: Logged on 24-02-2016 16:10:30; asciilifeform: so i wanted
to link
to mircea_popescu's article about dns, and
the hypothetical demented gf who punctures
the water pipes
phf: well, it's a
technical capability, like roads or email. bitcoin is hosted on a subtrate of
tcpip, question is can a b-a node accept packets
that come from outside
the wot and on what
terms.
mircea_popescu: phf let's start simple
tho. you used
the symbol, "network at large". define it.
pete_dushenski:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-02-2016#1414273 << indeed. apparently
there are
the $40 water bottles
that are now all
the rage. i only discovered
them at 'organic grocer' last week, vommited in mouth a bit at
the mere prospect of such an object at such a price, only
to discover
that
they're on every desk and every gym bag already.
☝︎☟︎ assbot: Logged on 24-02-2016 13:37:41; asciilifeform: i, for instance, was an incurable disappointment
to my parents
pete_dushenski: exaguess is based on gut, which is about 75% accurate in such matters
to date.
assbot: Logged on 24-02-2016 11:50:53; punkman: or is 2exa
too low?
phf: i can't figure out if "there's no network at large" is a semantic point or a
technical one. or is
the claim
that a semantic point makes
technical conversation irrelevant?
mircea_popescu: if folks in
the settled
territory keep on living
there, not even put up a fucking log barn ?
mircea_popescu: i dunno, man. if a guy makes a shitty camp during indian assault, it's one
thing.
mircea_popescu: well no, not all error/failure/stupidity is
THIS PARTICULAR one.
mircea_popescu: also makes little sense
to use
the
term re bitcoinj, whatever its shortcomings.
mircea_popescu: kinda what i've been saying. it makes little sense
to call say, original bitcoin as per satoshi release prb.
mircea_popescu: i dunno
that
the question was ever settled, or seriously considered. but it'd be expected prb begins with
the famous "you are like power rtangers" nonsense, during
the original hearn-induced fork.
mircea_popescu: hey, we also "cant prove" putin fucks obama in
the ass.
mircea_popescu: if you're particularly inclined
to act as a propaganda agent for prb, you may make
that wholly unsubstantiated, ridiculous claim.
mircea_popescu: perhaps. but
this really wasn't
the
thesis. you do know
that ~nobody is running prb, and
this has been in ample evidence historically
throughout.
mircea_popescu: for all you know engineering assumptions aren't
to be made
this way.
mircea_popescu: no, actually you know for a fact 95% of miners were not running prb back last year, because of
the fork
thing.
mircea_popescu: "all american women are blonde because
that's what i see on
tv anchors"
mircea_popescu: this is like saying "all americans are poor, everyone i see in grand central station is wearing shitty cloth shoes and a cheap
tshirt"
mircea_popescu: so
there is no "the network". just people you don't know your friends are fucking.
mircea_popescu: point being,
this is
the only relation people are usually unaware of.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform
the romanian word
to denote
the relationship between
two men fucking
the same woman is "sogor"\