log☇︎
33200+ entries in 0.183s
asciilifeform: ( i daren't to even dream about finding ones with ~whole~ )
trinque: this isn't comcast technical support, might find me getting to it when I get to it too.
asciilifeform: ( there is a historic thread on the subj, that i cannot presently find )
cnomad: i'll get to it when i get to it ☟︎
asciilifeform: cnomad: i recommend to switch off expiration, it never did anybody any good.
trinque: no, I'm not doing this for you again in November.
asciilifeform: i want no part of this.
asciilifeform: revisiting upstack : i categorically refuse to pay for any cr50 related work that does not produce a working and practically applicable pill. because there is no way to ensure that 'paid to advance art' rather than 'paid 10 derps' mortgages and student loans' ☟︎
asciilifeform did this at least 1ce, prior to 'fucking, i'ma dispense with the expiration nonsense'
cnomad: i guess i didn't update my site
trinque: I'm looking at what ended up in deedbot's keyring when you fed it that key
asciilifeform: cnomad: idea of contest, i found appealing because 1) inexpensive 2) simple , relatively, to administer, and does not require 'teams' of jobsworths.
asciilifeform: cnomad: i ain't about to sponsor a team of lunch eaters.
cnomad: right but you see what I'm saying?
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu doesn't see how the contest can be set up without creating a refereeing clusterfuck, or enriching alice_m, then i refuse to ask him to put any coin into any such thing.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, notice how well arbitering works! i have no way to specify ~whether~ im actually paying a coin into this shipile or not. NOR DO I CARE. i'm just letting you arbiter.
mircea_popescu: i tell you i dun see this as it stands.
asciilifeform: but if it can't be done to mircea_popescu's satisfaction, i'd rather not do it at all.
asciilifeform: all in all, i'd rather not have the contest at all, than to chance to give coin to fucking alice_m to add coin cherry to the top of a google bounty cake.
asciilifeform: on top of whatever massage already done ( and much as i hate to say it, it seems like a fairly high quality boobytrap )
asciilifeform: what can i say.
asciilifeform: i suppose we can revisit $thread if somebody l1 says 'i wanna referee'...
mircea_popescu: what can i tell ya.
asciilifeform: because i trust heathens about as far as i can throw'em ?
mircea_popescu: consider : i give you pill, you sell it to google, you tell me it's my fault.
asciilifeform: (i.e. 'what if enemy , on own power, finds the hole within $period' )
asciilifeform: well as i understand it , mircea_popescu dun like one of the proposed goals because it includes an element of chance
mircea_popescu: i think the principal result of the discussion is, "can't have multi-pronged or articulated contests"
asciilifeform: thus far asciilifeform seems to be the only one among the thinking folx who thinks that this idea had any life in it. so i suppose i'll shelf it for nao..
mircea_popescu: i'd like alf state lottery. "if you win and after 10 years are poor, you win again"
asciilifeform: i mean, already ~all i expect from $contest is a slightly taller than usual pile of 'you suxxx!!' mail
asciilifeform: we're contemplating a 4 wk marriage, of sorts, i guess.
asciilifeform: actually plenty of biznis worx like this. i had a squirrel exterminator make precisely this guarantee, on paper.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do they still have human referees at horse tracks ? i thought it was all laser nao..
mircea_popescu: the more i think about this, the more i want alf to be in charge of all sorts of things. imagine alf-run horsetrack.
asciilifeform: it isn't trivial. but i can only with difficulty picture a contest where it is easier than in this one.
asciilifeform: what i would like to avoid, however, is the fucking trannies.
asciilifeform: i dun think i actually disagree with mircea_popescu , re: whether there will be a winner.
mircea_popescu: i don't think money works like you think it does.
asciilifeform: hence idea, i put actual coin in.
asciilifeform: i dun see what's wrong with a 'pill WILL work month later, even if you have to go and hbomb google hq' clause. )
mircea_popescu: well, scholarship only helps in the way it helps, what can i tell you.
asciilifeform: i dun swing that way..
phf: i don't think "can still buy and diddle of amazon in a month" is adequate test for "didn't leak the patch to google". but i don't think there's a procedure to test the goal in general (see absence of evidence above). perhaps you could restate the goal, but then whatever restatement i'm not sure it will be under the control of the participant. in fact as mircea_popescu pointed out, a restatement of this particular goal simply introduces a random element
mircea_popescu: "what the fuck is your problem ?" "i just spent all day telling teenagers they're ugly because they don't have three tits".
mircea_popescu: consider this : i set up a tent at porcfest, advertising "mp slavegirl intake". and there is sure enough a lengthy line of bikini clad beauties before it. i also put slavegirl in tent, and instruct her to reject the ugly ones. ugliness is "mechanically testably alf 3.o" defined as "lacks third tit". end of day, my slavegirl's pretty downcast.
asciilifeform: ( if 'he made this bizarre algo and i cannot make heads or tails of it' is the obstacle )
asciilifeform: imho i have described enough of a mechanical litmus, that a referee can stand on solid ground.
asciilifeform: if phf can think of a way to 'game' the 'exam', i'm all ears.
asciilifeform: meaningful. i either get a pile of c101pa with rewritable cr50 256kB firmwares, or not.
asciilifeform: phf: i'm still waiting to hear why the test algo i proposed, somehow resolves to 'untestable'
phf: goals and procedures inadvertently put the arbiter in the position of affirming that the goal has been or been not achieved but without following own procedures. in other words you want me to potentially call that the source has been leaked to google, but rely on a procedure that i can't possibly consider adequate for the verification.
phf: asciilifeform: my thinking is that your goals ("didn't leak to google") ought to be separate from the testing procedures ("can buy from amazon in a month"). some of your goals are potentially untestable and it's up to whoever's doing independent verification to come up with the procedure for testing, or dismiss the goal as untestable. then up to you to either find a different arbiter, or agree not to pursue one of the goals. i think that providing both
asciilifeform: funnily enuff i got one of those right here
asciilifeform: i dun ask mircea_popescu to stroke my fur and say 'it will all surely work', the gods gave us mircea_popescu specifically to say 'eh this is dumb'
mircea_popescu: well looky, i'm not trying to ruin your fun here, but if yo uwant me to try an follow along ima try as best i can. so far, it's not taking me far.
asciilifeform: by this logic ( and i suspect that mircea_popescu is right , in earlier thread ) there's no point .
mircea_popescu: so... i can't imagine the problem you're trying tro approach even exists, which is why i can't come up with a way to solve it.
asciilifeform: at any rate currently i dun even have a referee. chances are that there will be no game.
asciilifeform: understand, i have no use whatsoever for a hole that gets sent to google immediately upon discovery. i would not only not pay a coin for ~that~, but would not pay a $1 bill.
mircea_popescu: i should like to see your oncology clinic.
asciilifeform: i do not see the injustice. contest can ~only~ operate on facts, not suppositions.
asciilifeform: nope, i do not ask phf to decide. the condition is clean cut, like guillotine.
mircea_popescu: anyway, your design is dysfunctional in that (even allowing for it modelling somewhat close to reality, which i have no faith it does) suppose today someone gives you a working pill, and june 27th google patches the hole. and the someone says "dood, i have nfi, i honestly didn't tell anyone anything".
asciilifeform: because i do not know how many mircea_popescu obtained via danielpbarron , lol
asciilifeform: i cannot comment on danielpbarron's
asciilifeform: incidentally the whole fleet cost about 300 bux; i.e. the cost of 1 c101pa-tron.
asciilifeform: is what i meant.
asciilifeform: in re pogo in particular, i dun recall a particular +ev biznis plan for'em . they were , in mircea_popescu's exact, iirc, words, a reserve fleet.
mircea_popescu: but back to it : i see the value in taking a magic marker to the outside track of google's "drm". i do not see the value in your hairebrained scheme to make a business out of it.
asciilifeform: i see a number of problems, 'it wasn't worth buying for $ 600' aint one.
mircea_popescu: i think you conflate economics and coolness. for one thing, an original trinitron bought the year sony came out with them was like 5k ? or some shit like that. for the other thing, 1k from 1988 is like 10-15k today. so... i don't see the $100k price tag that'd merely cover inflation.
asciilifeform: new-in-box , genuine item , was worth about 1k usd few yrs ago. and pretty much extinct last i saw.
mircea_popescu: i bet you i could, if i wanted to. there's plenty of old crap here.
mircea_popescu: somehow i've not bought another.
asciilifeform: point being, yes, in clean and working condition (i.e. with not yet faded tubes, for instance) these are yes valuable.
mircea_popescu: i think i have one right here. from ~period. it's a workhorse, sure, and it paid for itself many times over, but... ☟︎
asciilifeform: phf: i gave goals, what's the problem again ?
phf: asciilifeform: i'm up for a job of contest arbiter, i don't think that what you're proposing is arbitration. i thought that you're going to give goals, and it's up to me to evaluate if the goals have been achieved. but you want me to merely verify your procedure. that's fine, but that doesn't make me an arbitrator.
asciilifeform: lol no it wouldn't, i'd prolly buy a coupla dozen.
asciilifeform: phf: i am happy that you are willing to experiment. and if yer not feeling up to the job of contest arbiter, that's allright.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824502 << right. it's also not a good idea for an arbiter to sign someone else's exam, as if it's anything but. i've offered to run the proposed experiments without arbitrating, but that's not what ascii wants. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 23:39 asciilifeform: phf: you will test using your c101pa. and so you will need the debug snake, i will need to put the output of sysinfo , ver , brd , etc cr50 console commands into the statement.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 00:16 asciilifeform: i'm not about to ask mircea_popescu to buy us 500 boxes prior to discovery of pill.
asciilifeform: if i can't get another d00d to play the tuba while i do the drums, what merit can there be in contest.
asciilifeform: as it is, i'm pretty satisfied with my tentative formulation.
mircea_popescu: see what i mean ?
mircea_popescu: note however that practice is alligned : when you protested (essentially) that the tits thing is being exam-took, i ignored it, specifically because... it was specified!
mircea_popescu: but i'm not doing it, am i ? i dunno how i'd do it ; i'm also not against exercising the doing it muscle, but commetary is part and parcel of the exercising.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 00:07 phf: yes, but if you are going to establish a procedure why do you need an arbitrator, or in other words, i don't see a point of separate arbitrator if the process is your own
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i was just looking on.
asciilifeform: i had nfi mircea_popescu welded !! world turned upside down!1111
mircea_popescu: i dun recall. which was this ?
asciilifeform: i considered o2 for the laser, could cut sheet metal if i substituted o2 in place of the air column, but hesitated, keeping tank in unvented shed is invitation for trouble
asciilifeform: dare i to ask why mircea_popescu keeps the tank around
mircea_popescu: wtf is this world coming to. i just vented a few m3 into the biodiversidad
asciilifeform: i'm not about to ask mircea_popescu to buy us 500 boxes prior to discovery of pill. ☟︎
asciilifeform: ok i guess we need a new referee.
phf: asciilifeform: i see, i'm sorry, but i don't think i can properly be called a referee under these conditions. i can do independent testing for you though, i.e. test against current c101pa, and against one that i purchase at a time you indicate.
asciilifeform: so that i can acquire a supply of curable boxen.