log☇︎
325700+ entries in 0.196s
fluffypony: so if an input appears to come from 20 outputs on the blockchain there is an equiprobable chance that each of those 20 outputs is the real one
asciilifeform: so if you reveal your connection with whatever inputs, you have given non-negligible info to the enemy.
fluffypony: so then you understand that the ring signatures are only on inputs
asciilifeform: or what, this is a new one ?
asciilifeform: the last time we had this thread !
fluffypony: READ THE WHITEPAPER
asciilifeform: srsly i am tired of the crypto abuse.
asciilifeform: if 'ring signature' means what shamir meant by it, than it is not 'negligible.'
fluffypony: unless you're in the habit of publicly revealing this information for all your transactions it does nothing
asciilifeform: and what does this do to the anonymity of your other transactions ?
fluffypony: seriously, read the whitepaper
fluffypony: all it does is allow a recreation of the key images for that transaction in order to verify that you actually created it
fluffypony: you have multiple options, the easiest of which is reveal the private key for that transaction
asciilifeform: say, because you want to actually get the thing you were paying for ?
asciilifeform: and if you want to prove that a particular tx was yours ?
fluffypony: RingCT obscures transaction amounts, that's in MRL5
fluffypony: definitions of both of those terms are in the whitepaper
fluffypony: they're in the whitepaper
fluffypony: nobody said there was
asciilifeform: ring signature just lets you 'one of keys k1,k2,...kn COULD HAVE signed this.'
fluffypony: the MRL1, MRL4, and MRL5 papers are most relevant to the more enhancements we've made or are making
fluffypony: proofs are at the end
fluffypony: and the original CryptoNote whitepaper: https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf
asciilifeform: want to.
asciilifeform: imho the notion is misguided. existing bitcoin can work this way if one wants it to. but, e.g., bitbet, DOES NOT
asciilifeform: i know of at least 3 'dark coin' schemes, each of dubious cryptographic foundation, for 'nonpublic tx'
asciilifeform: and even if it were so, it does not help bitbet, which ~already~ could 'prevent miners from blocking tx' IF it chose to keep them secret, but pointedly DOES NOT WANT ☟︎
asciilifeform: gimme the theorem.
asciilifeform: but where is the proof ?
asciilifeform: this is the claim.
fluffypony: asciilifeform: by removing the ability for miners to identify your transaction without, say, compromising your machine
asciilifeform: and what are the boundary conditions ?
fluffypony: but as to whether they can tell if a transaction is yours, yes, that's something we solve
fluffypony: punkman: miners can block whatever they want
asciilifeform: or, rather, the folks to whom it is interesting, are already doing it.
asciilifeform: if i want this, i can go to kandahar.
asciilifeform: or rather, how is this not a throwback to manually-cranked hawala.
punkman: I think wot+credit-lines solutions are interesting, sorta like the original ripple before the derps bought the name ☟︎
assbot: Logged on 22-05-2014 17:00:58; asciilifeform: re: 'monero': 'Egalitarian proof of work' << do we need to read past this line ?
punkman: does monero solve the miner-can-block-my-tx with its ring signatures? (ping fluffypony)
asciilifeform: (with their magic bitfields, etc.)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the one thing i will say for certain is that the moving parts gotta be ~number-theoretical~ entities, rather than idiot protocol-promise goop
asciilifeform: if you want to plow a field, what would you rather have? two strong oxen? or 4294967296 cockroaches.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: quite possibly cutting mining apart from transacting was a design error. ☟︎
BingoBoingo: werc is cat-v/9base thing
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: see last night's thread
BingoBoingo did suggest werc + plugin universe, but I have yet to explore that much myself
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2016 18:48:33; mircea_popescu: there's also the case of the retarded romanian workers who stuck a compressed air outlet in the woman's vagina for lulz, ended up with a fatality.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2016#1422772 << iirc that was embolism tho ☝︎
punkman: fuck wordpress, use one of those static site generators
mircea_popescu: but iirc we did that in the logs.
BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> my wwwtron seems to have recovered on its own.. working for now if you want to try << take this opportunity to flense. It's seriously 90%+ of making wordpress www worthy
mircea_popescu: there's also the case of the retarded romanian workers who stuck a compressed air outlet in the woman's vagina for lulz, ended up with a fatality. ☟︎
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo? << was a thing, don't recall exact link or quote
mircea_popescu: i myself am persuaded that's a very accurate model of how "force air in oral cavity" would work.
punkman: snopes says the text is dubious though http://www.snopes.com/photos/risque/prolapse.asp
mircea_popescu: that's the one. penn state, looks like 20 eyars ago ?
asciilifeform: on laptops, stuck with the idiocy
asciilifeform: and FUCKING NO, the idiot xmodmap thing is pointedly not it (doesn't work in the console) and the keymap derpery is also not it (doesn't work in X) and neither works in, e.g., 'dosbox'.
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, does anybody else find it curious that the linux kernel offers no way to remap keys ?
asciilifeform: seems to work.
danielpbarron: my wwwtron seems to have recovered on its own.. working for now if you want to try
mircea_popescu: hm. i recall the exact quote. derp was "and then i felt like i was pushing extra hard..."
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mircea_popescu: was a thing.
mircea_popescu: you recall the story of that weioghlifter who butt-exploded shattering shit and blood all over ?
asciilifeform: i think about this story every time i turn on my compressor.
mircea_popescu: "not THAt inch, THIs inch!"
mircea_popescu: this is a trained surgeon that'd so distinguish ?
mircea_popescu: how would you distinguish "peritoneal burst" from this ?
mircea_popescu: quite. asshole not designed or intended to hold pressure in that way.
asciilifeform: yeah but is there enough pressure.
mircea_popescu: air has to go somewhere.
asciilifeform: i have always wondered if this is a plausible tale, anatomically
asciilifeform: blowing out his guts through the arse.
asciilifeform: and stuff the air hose down moth
mircea_popescu: by and large, quite happy with hitler. at least he's not english. then degaulle came up with a piously fraudulent reinterpretation of the early 40s
asciilifeform: they frogmarch the bearded folks to the local mechanic shop
asciilifeform: there is an interesting (ru) account of a witness who saw the latvians, in anticipation of german arrival, have some fun at a yeshiva
mircea_popescu: well for that matter - france.
asciilifeform: to the point that they didn't leave so many for the germans to use
mircea_popescu: loved the jew burning.
mircea_popescu: that tilt is not even what anglo sources usually like to pretend.
asciilifeform: at least until he went into tilt, it did.
mircea_popescu: kinda ironic how hitler never realised poland/ukraina/etc actually liked him a lot more than saxony.
asciilifeform: stalin followed peter's 'colonization with the crown as sole european' model. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: nobody asked ukrs if they wanted to fight "the facscist invader" etc.
mircea_popescu: eh, get out of here. the last enslaving went the other way, back in stalin's day.
asciilifeform: nobody asked donbas if it wants to mine coal to power imbecilic kiev.
mircea_popescu: if only there were enslaving.
asciilifeform: what anglos toil in the philippines ?
mircea_popescu: similarly there
mircea_popescu: depends on your definition thereof.
asciilifeform: afaik the anglos did not so much as attempt to culturally 'uplift' the pinoy.
asciilifeform: not in the sense BingoBoingo asked for
mircea_popescu: so then yes - ukraine, direct equiv ?
asciilifeform: certainly true
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mircea_popescu: and 100% of what sets the piony - quite temporarily - above the monekys in the zoo is of anglo design and manufacture
asciilifeform: 100% of what sets the ukrs - quite temporarily - above the monkeys in the zoo, is of su design and manufacture.