321000+ entries in 0.21s
mircea_popescu: even if somehow all
the ducks got lined up, it needs some publicity.
ben_vulpes: also auction not
the best model, lowest bidding receiver is not a particularly good idea.
ascii_field: so if receiver decides
that all bets pay properly and mircea_popescu gets a 17 btc haircut, mircea_popescu will live with
this?
mircea_popescu: when a venture goes into receivership a person is named (usually by
the courts)
to receive all
the assets, and register all
the claims against it.
then decide which claims are valiud, and how much
they're getting.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field well no, you know how
this sort of
thing works ?
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: for
that
to happen,
the receiver'd have
to invalidate mircea_popescu's charge.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: unless i misread,
there is no way it can fully pay out bettors
mircea_popescu: i'd really ask folk in b-a with busienss experience
to seriously consider doing
this. a clean close-down of a bitcoin venture would be
truly an absolute first.
mircea_popescu: but let's not
talk of
things being moot and sad stuff like
that. instead : bitbet isn't actually missing any bettor funds,
the whole receiver
thing could be done in a week.
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: folks have destroyed far more precious machines
than bbet by elbowing 'wrong button'
☟︎ pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: i'd open a perimutuel bet
that nassim who play receiver, but i don't
trust betmoooose
pete_dushenski: declined,
though he did manage
to leave with US$82 million … in exchange for a US$300 million mortgage. When
Trump’s investors from Hong Kong cashed out more
than a decade later, US$1.8 billion in profits awaited
them.
Thin-skinned as ever,
Trump sued
them."
pete_dushenski: "Moneyed folk in Hong Kong know of his phoniness, mainly because of something
that happened in
the early 1990s.
Trump bungled a real estate deal in New York City, one
that would have
truly established him as a
titan of America, and he needed cash fast. He came
to Hong Kong looking for investors, and met
them for a game of golf.
They wanted
to play for US$1 million a hole.
Trump knew he was out of his league and
ben_vulpes: probably /also/ already disqualified for stating his opinions on
the matter.
ben_vulpes: who is going
to even contemplate stepping into receiver's role in
this context?!
ben_vulpes: elementary questions like "wtf -- paid
twice?!" are dismissed with "you just don't understand how bitcoin works".
ascii_field: bird
that ends up in engine could have learned something prior ?
ascii_field: i have equally little business
telling lee sedol how
to play
ben_vulpes: i've been
told
that i have no business saying anything about bitbet's business, ascii_field.
pete_dushenski: thank goodness i've been wearing my plague mask in
the bedroom of late. it brought me luck!
assbot: Logged on 13-03-2016 20:51:27; mircea_popescu: anyway,
to be perfectly clear, i don't
think kakobrekla did anything wrong at any juncture, nor am i privately holding anything against
the man. while
the outcome is miserable, i dun
think
there's necessarily much
that could have been done
to prevent it.
ben_vulpes: nor can you pay bettors out after yourself in
the process of dissolution.
ascii_field: thing has almost greek
tragedic flavour
to it.
mircea_popescu: well what
the fuck, i'm not leaving
this in my will fee
tail.
ben_vulpes: "I will simply consider
the matter moot." << and keep bettor funds if no receiver steps forward?
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski
the way start-ups usually work is
that
they look good, but if forcibly deflated midstride it's
tears all around.
ascii_field: and actually yeah, if bbet were yielding 100btc/day or whatever, it could eat
the bird in
the engine and keep flying
ascii_field: aha
this is sorta like a superconductor, a very small pocket of not-superconducting-no-moar leads
to
thermal runaway and quench and boom.
mircea_popescu: and
the other is
that very little actual value exists in serving
this market.
mircea_popescu: and all sorts of costs
that
the fiat system eats, are not here eaten by anything.
ascii_field: any operation can
take damage and run a loss
mircea_popescu: hence my comment about fragility.
there are
two main
threads here
that would-be bitcoin entrepreneurs must heed quite closely. one is
that - your expense structure is not either a) in your own control or b) specificable. for as long as your business model involves bitcoin as it currently exists, you're doing
the economic equivalent of linking remote dlls.
☟︎ pete_dushenski: this obviously couldn't strictly be
true, but was a more of philosophical consideration
to my mind
pete_dushenski: my
two cents on 0assets was always
that it was a nod
towards mpex bitcoin businesses having no bounded geographic constraints. '0asset' always meant '0meatspaceasset' in my head.
mircea_popescu: anyway,
to be perfectly clear, i don't
think kakobrekla did anything wrong at any juncture, nor am i privately holding anything against
the man. while
the outcome is miserable, i dun
think
there's necessarily much
that could have been done
to prevent it.
☟︎ ascii_field: i suppose it is
true
that inventor never has half a clue re
the long
term.
mircea_popescu: i invent
things by degrees and i can't always and on
the button answer as
to
the logic of
things.
they go in a context. i know for a fact
the arrangement make sense in 2012, but entirely hazy as
to
the reasoning.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field> bbet long pre-dates my study of mircea_popescutronics, and i have nfi <<< it's not
terribly clear
to me either, after all
these years.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: creditors first, aha, after i asked, i remembered
this
ben_vulpes: oh ffs BingoBoingo with
the mythical miner cartel
jurov: unexpected expenses are different
thing
than irreconcilable difference between partners
ben_vulpes: the problem appears
to not be "unexpected expense" but a disagreement between
the founders as
to
the legitimacy of
the expense.
ascii_field: (what if someone had stolen
the server, like
trilema was once stolen? or
the like)
ascii_field: bbet long pre-dates my study of mircea_popescutronics, and i have nfi, was
the plan
that it could never incur unexpected expense ?
ascii_field: also i realized
that i never learned what was
the logic for 0asset operations ?
ascii_field: is
this
traditional? (i am not connected with any of
this, merely curious how it worx)
☟︎ ascii_field: 'This line of credit carries seniority above
that of shareholders and below
that of bettors.' was mircea_popescu's earlier verdict, but now 'Bitbet's liabilities are currently comprised of various bills (such as
the 17.94766149 BTC it owes as per
this report, such as whatever fee it may owe
the receiver for his
trouble, and others as may arise), which are
the most senior ; with
the remainder
to go
to payouts
to
th
ascii_field: anyway while i expect
to eventually be smashed into pieces, i do not expect anyone
to actually pick any of
them up. nor do i really give a damn.
mircea_popescu: course not, cuz if you're going
to you're best not be seen.
ascii_field: i dun
think i ever actually saw mircea_popescu pick up pieces.
ascii_field: i can more easily see mircea_popescu raising a guerilla army in nepal or
the like.
mircea_popescu: so
then no, mp isn't learning any ada. if mp wanted
to learn ada, he would have.
mircea_popescu: that i'm perpetually going
to pick up
the pieces. i'm not.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field let me disabuse you of
that notion right now.
mircea_popescu: i must say
the experience has been rather sobering as
to all sorts of naive assumptions as
to value, wealth and economics in
the bitcoin world.
assbot: The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on
Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1phuhuR )
ascii_field: eventually either
the lizards will move, or mircea_popescu will grow
tired of me, or my health simply gives out, and mircea_popescu will have
to learn ada and relearn numbertheory himself...
ascii_field: i already stand on
th board with only one foot, in having lately
to spend virtually all of my
time working on idiotic rubbish so as
to pay
the rent.
ascii_field: jurov: since you mentioned it, i will explain
that i can be
taken off
the gameboard in any of 1,001 different simple ways, by
the lizards, and i have no defense, and
that you and
the rest should expect
this
to happen sooner or later and study accordingly
assbot: Logged on 13-03-2016 14:32:19; ascii_field: my hypothesis is
that he was not paid
to lose, as such, but
to keep a particular style of play, and he believed
that he could win regardless.
ascii_field: jurov: in usaschwitz, it is enough
to be sued,
to be driven into penury immediately, you don't even need
to lose.
ascii_field: the only reason it has not happened is
that i'm ineffective and uninteresting
to anyone...
ascii_field: nothing
to stop
them from doing it right now.
jurov: while you dream about sophisticated
torture devices
jurov: but i did not ask about ubuntu. i asked about m$ suing you about infringing
their patents
assbot: Logged on 13-03-2016 18:51:57; danielpbarron: jurov> i wonder what alf will do << lemme
try and fill in while he's away : mega-snore! ubuntu,
the winbl0wz of linux,
thought it could make a smart-f0ne when obviously
the mobile world is for usg-blessed corps
ascii_field: in 4th game lee sedol actually decided
to play with both hands and wiped
the floor with
the bot.
ben_vulpes: at least i only had
to
type my password
the *first*
time i booted bitcoin under gdb
fluffypony: well you can build iOS apps on just about everything, so you can't get away from
that
ben_vulpes: let's just cram all
the
things i hate about my life into one
tidy little package
ben_vulpes: here's
to
the grand unified microsoft-brand-linux-that-can-build-ios-apps
mod6: i did get gnat
to work, so at least i can play with sample programs locally etc.
mod6: im gonna
tackle ada
this week when my book gets here.
danielpbarron: i
think
there's already a precedent for
the other part; see SEC vs MP
danielpbarron: jurov> i wonder what alf will do << lemme
try and fill in while he's away : mega-snore! ubuntu,
the winbl0wz of linux,
thought it could make a smart-f0ne when obviously
the mobile world is for usg-blessed corps
☟︎ BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo i have nfi what's going on with
those
two articles.
they don't even make sense. << I'll get
to cutting
assbot: Microsoft Has Just Blackmailed Linux
Twice in One Single Week and
the Media Didn’t Notice or Just Ignored It Because of Microsoft’s Charm Offensives |
Techrights ... (
http://bit.ly/1pFcOx1 )