318600+ entries in 0.187s
BingoBoingo: <solrodar> yes, so I'm simply saying
that
the receiver's contract should not presume any particular classification <<
The reciever may end up rejecting some claims by suppliers, but
the MUST be *considered* first
solrodar: whereas davout's post does appear
to do so
solrodar: yes, so I'm simply saying
that
the receiver's contract should not presume any particular classification
PeterL: well, it is up
to
the receiver
to classify
things
PeterL: you don't seem
to grasp
the must pay first/can pay first difference
solrodar: who says all suppliers must be in
the same class?
solrodar: URGENT suppliers must be senior
to customers
solrodar: if he says it's not an ordered list
then
that's fine
PeterL: but in order
to have
that flexibility, suppliers as a class must be senior
to customers as a class
solrodar: yes, but if davout's list is read as an ordered list
then it still says
that all suppliers are senior
to all bettors
PeterL: solrodar
they didn't say all suppliers must be in
the same class,
the receiver has
the option
to classify suppliers as urgent/non-urgent
mircea_popescu: and if i'm reading
this correctly
there may well be death sentences ?
mircea_popescu notes bitterly
that
the chinese ARE fucking prosecuting
their own bfl, unlike
the usg faggots.
mircea_popescu: and 2. IF you want
to argue against something i said, do yourself
the favour and BRING VERY GOOD ARGUMENTS. because your own personal word will count for nothing much, and you'll just make a clown out of yourself.
solrodar: who says all suppliers must be in
the same class?
mircea_popescu: this flows from
the definition of
the
term supplier (comes before
the company on
the flow) and customer (comes after).
mircea_popescu: two
things, read
them outloud
to yourself. 1. if A is a class senior
to B,
then receiver MAY NOT proceed
to pay B until he has disposed of A entirely.
therefore suppliers MUST be in A and cusomters in B, BECAUSE customers can do nothing
to injure
the bankrupt concern,. whereas
the suppliers can.
solrodar: I have only 0.2 BTC of outstanding bets, so
this isn't really a conflict of interest for me
solrodar: yes, and I don't see where you responded
to
that point
solrodar: but as I said, if
the only argument is "receiver still has
to work",
then it only applies
to claims
the receiver must pay in order
to do his work
davout: solrodar: well, how about you
think of a bitcoin
transaction fee as a certified bill? it is necessary
to pay it for
the receiver
to be able
to actually bettors for example
mircea_popescu: you wanna argue against something i said, do yourself and especially your posterity
the favour of coming with eighteen armored divisions.
mircea_popescu: and in general
this inept "mp said something ; i said something else because i'm just as much a X as mp" is
the font of ineptitude.
solrodar: I suppose
that could be read as not being an ordered list
solrodar: davout: "payment of
the liabilities on a best-effort basis, ordered by priority (certified bills, bet winnings & refunds, shareholders)"
mircea_popescu: this neatly matches
the ability of suppliers
to cut
the spaghetti NOW as opposed
to
the customers' ability
to basically whine moar.
mircea_popescu: seniority is principally important so as
to give
the receiver
the option, not
the obligation,
to pay
things NOW, rather
than promise
to pay after he pays someone else.
solrodar: true, but I would suggest it not be written in stone at
this stage
mircea_popescu: solrodar
the receiver has
the option
to set aside bills anyway, so
that's not much of a practical consideration.
solrodar: BingoBoingo: not paying customers injures
the brand a lot more
than not paying mircea_popescu
BingoBoingo: solrodar: Since
the reciever's aim is recovering
the maximum value from where it can, ideally
they pay
the bills
to not injure
the brand anymore
than it has been by ending up in recievership.
solrodar: if
the only argument is "receiver still has
to work",
then it only applies
to claims
the receiver must pay in order
to do his work
solrodar: ok, but it's obviously a principle you wish
to adopt
mircea_popescu: if you ask "there's a general principle in liquidation" you are necessarily asking about fiat practice,
there not being another practice in
the field.
mircea_popescu: fiat practice is indeed vast and in
time it has grown fragmented and oft contradictory.
nubbins`: <+solrodar>but before it gets written into a contract I want
to question why we're presuming
that bills are more senior
than bettor funds << i want
to question why you used "we"
solrodar: so you're saying
there's a general principle in liquidation
that all claims by suppliers and employees are senior
to all claims by customers?
mircea_popescu: that's why black people aren't "naturally
thieves" irrespective what black people you can personally summon
to mind.
mircea_popescu: you can't base your judgement about what
to do with a category on
the basis of what you know or "can imagine" in
terms of examples from
that category.
solrodar: if
that is rejected or haircut, it doesn't impede
the liquidator's work
solrodar: and
the only bill in question is of course your bill for 17 BTC
mircea_popescu: solrodar bills are senior because in general for
the same general reason. you don't pay electricity, bankrupt or not, you can't have
the lights on. receiver still has
to work.
davout: solrodar: unless
the liquidator bill is senior he has no guarantee
to be paid, in which case...
BingoBoingo: In other news,
today is closing arguments for Hulk Hogan v. Gawker
BingoBoingo: And
there's even automatic watering systems available for
that part
BingoBoingo: <jurov> even batteries are advised not
to be massively serially connected, you know << Well, I imagined massively parallel FeNi banks. linked
to get
target voltages. Abuse however just so long as you remember
to water
them.
BingoBoingo: Also in Davout's favor is he parted out and closed a contentious property before after he acquired Instawallet and discovered it
to be
toxic. He's got experience dealing with
the aggro.
solrodar: but before it gets written into a contract I want
to question why we're presuming
that bills are more senior
than bettor funds
solrodar: mircea_popescu, kakobrekla: davout does indeed seem
to be better qualified
than me
jurov: plus, high voltage DC is more dangerous
to humans
than AC, plus harder
to extinguish arcs
jurov: even batteries are advised not
to be massively serially connected, you know
BingoBoingo: Get power
to batteries however, one it's in
the batteries dice it up and feed
to machines as appropriate
jurov: asciilifeform: if he is fine with serially connecting elements with wildly variable resistances
to 300V, no wonder he's fine with many other interesting
things :)
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 18-03-2016 12:13:45; assbot: Logged on 18-03-2016 04:55:17; mircea_popescu: a) eye-readable contract ; b) machine-verifiable signature ; c)
that can also be verified by hand ; d) in
the same item.
assbot: Logged on 18-03-2016 05:52:52; mircea_popescu: clouds have a function beyond
their perceptible form ; "sybils" means nothing other
than
the cartel.
assbot: Logged on 18-03-2016 04:55:17; mircea_popescu: a) eye-readable contract ; b) machine-verifiable signature ; c)
that can also be verified by hand ; d) in
the same item.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: clouds have a function beyond
their perceptible form ; "sybils" means nothing other
than
the cartel.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: it;s nothing short of saying "the clouds must be painted on
the firmament because
they are seen and
the parsimonious explanation of all
thigns seen is painting".
ben_vulpes: and if
the
two parties are engaged in commerce, at least
there must be an open channel
to
those consuming
the digests.
ben_vulpes: if nonce demand is kept high enough, anyone operating a node
that can produce digests has something of value
to miners.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: could
the digest be a
tool for node operators
to ensure access
to miners?
assbot: Logged on 18-03-2016 04:59:01; mircea_popescu: jurov is
the mario draghi "she" deliberate ?
assbot: Logged on 18-03-2016 04:57:49; mircea_popescu: jurov ftr, "specie" in english means gold bullion. it's unadvisable
to use in
the context you do.
mircea_popescu: qntra model really
taught us a lot. only
thing is... came years after original bitbet.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: bbet share payment also avoids
the issue of mods dragging
their heels in resolving a sticky situation, as per hour fees would. share payment also puts skin in
the game and flat-rate payment incentives efficiency.
assbot: Logged on 18-03-2016 02:20:52; asciilifeform: 'we are entitled
to everyone's plain
text data, and if Congress won't give it
to us, we'll use our 27.1 billion dollar budget, and army of 100K lawyers
to
take it in court. Your
tax dollars at work.'
assbot: Logged on 18-03-2016 02:18:42; asciilifeform: 'I did fight
things out in court. It just occurred in secret, and while a proper description would require
the use of vulgarity, I'll summarize by saying I was railroaded.
The length of
time between when I received
the PRTT order, and when I was found in contempt (ex parte) was about 5 weeks. For comparison
the /median /time between filing and disposition of a civil contempt charge in federal court du
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: a) why is
that and b) out of whose piggy?
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: if mods are
to be paid in any fashion, it ought
to be bbet shares.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes a simple way
to address
the problem is put in a fixed per-bet fee, of say .2 or .3 or w/e, and make bet minimum 1 or somesuch.
mircea_popescu: jurov ftr, "specie" in english means gold bullion. it's unadvisable
to use in
the context you do.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: assuming: betbet revenue is 100x divs (fault in several ways), and 2500 hours of
time, and 0.4% of bitbet revenue
to mods implies a .18 btc/hr mod rate. perverse incentive,
though.