317800+ entries in 0.199s
mircea_popescu: like in
that film with
the guy who keeps waking up in
the same place.
mod6: we're just at
this moment in history where everything sucks.,
mircea_popescu: and moreover, even with
the best of intentions,
the defense of
the group is expensive and arduous, and everyone's got better shit
to do.
mircea_popescu: much like it is cheaper for universities
to universities
than
to actually
teach anyone anything
mircea_popescu: and it is cheaper for
this group
to put forth an ideology
than
to do any actual investigative work
☟︎☟︎ mod6: mircea_popescu: formally, a group would have
to be constructed
to investigate and analyze failures and place blame where beyond required -- if it can be proved beyond any doubt.
nubbins`: asciilifeform
this also opens up
the option for interesting filters, e.g. no need
to display "heart" field if "brain" is 00, etc
mircea_popescu: yeah, sure, not a difficult one for as long as one lives on imaginary half mil a year and
theorizes away. in practice, it will not be seen, nor has it.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: and, importantly, if it WERE
to fail, how would we resolve
the problem if it is or it isn't your fault.
☟︎ mod6: mircea_popescu: well, indeed. i mean, i can "swear and affirm"
that my code won't fail you, but really, I can't be certain one way or another.
too many variables.
mircea_popescu: mod6 in any case,
the idea of responsibility in software is a lot more difficult
to implement
than previously hoped.
mod6: 99.9995% of
time it works. except for when it doesnt.
nubbins`: asciilifeform no, on first chuff it looks sensible; not
that much more long-winded
than a file permissions block
mircea_popescu: basically giving
the day
to
the usual obamas with simple ideas and an insistence
to repeat
their nonsense.
mod6: it doesn't mean
that it's still not probablistic.
mircea_popescu: moreover,
the issue of "it's kernel's fault" "no dude is program's fault" requires very complex analysis most people are unable
to engage in, and in any case unable
to finance even if
they could somehow engage in it
mod6: we're all just rolling
the dice.
mircea_popescu: mod6
that is
the crux of
the problem.
there is no such
thing as separatability in software anyway.
mod6: but "i swear
this werks!!",
then someone runs your shit and it ~should~ work, but doesn't because of unforseen hardware, or configuration or cosmic rays.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> well,
the implicit 'i swear with my life
to
this' - leaves me reluctant
to sign anything i did not write 100% of << and who's
to say, even if you wrote everything at one layer,
that something doesn't fuck you in
the butt from a layer below? we don't have computers. never did.
nubbins`: asciilifeform multi-bit vector pgp sounds about as rat-nesty as a
tag-based log
tracking system
mircea_popescu: i imagine
that's a rabbit with a whiplash sore penis huh
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> right now, i expect
to sign something half-baked
that
then crashes on some dirigible and gets me excommunicated <<
this is a very cogent point ; and i feel rather
the same way.
nubbins`: went
to fight a parking
ticket
today,
the crown had no evidence and
the cop who wrote
the
ticket didn't show up
mircea_popescu: jurov> and if your wot peer starts spamming with facebooky comments, just remove him << it's not so simple, really. it's not a sudden and visible
thing, just slow slide
towards shitworld where you wake up one day and wonder wtf happened. much like irl marriages.
jurov: btw, i have misread first mention of it as "vectored
thrust" and imagined "wow S.NSA is finally onto ICBMs. Or space program?"
jurov: thestringpuller: "complex vector space" sounds like fitting description of human attitude
toward
the matter being signed
thestringpuller: "In mathematical field of representation
theory, a quaternionic representation is a representation on a complex vector space V with an invariant quaternionic structure"
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2016 17:59:11;
thestringpuller: so what else is
there? linear? parabolic?
ben_vulpes: "this may contain pernicious hdd-wrecking nasties i'm unaware of, but is
the closest
thing
to a bitcoinator i know of"?
ben_vulpes: i was even uncomfortable signing
the genesis vpatch. what does
that even mean -- "this is actually some variant of satoshi's hairball"?
ben_vulpes: right now, i expect
to sign something half-baked
that
then crashes on some dirigible and gets me excommunicated
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i've been waiting for
the "what does a signature convey" conversation
to sign anything.
trinque: I can see
the pragmatism of it
trinque: sure, for me it's "I cannot yet swear an oath
to
this" and could instead say "I have been running deedbot atop
this successfully for x months"
mod6: jurov: your mempool work was important. reading
the vpatches and
the ml and
the SoBA is important
too -- and iirc doesn't
take
that long
to get
through most of
them at
this point
mod6: further, all other vpatches are signed by me and me and you.
there are some you haven't signed either.
jurov: maybe i should have been reading and signing patches instead of doing
the mempool abortion
jurov: i consider whole
trb
thing as something
that demands my full attention, and
there's always something more urgent
to do...
mod6: <+asciilifeform>
this patch has 'all signers: mircea_popescu
trinque asciilifeform mod6' << i'll note
that
this signatures you're referencing are strictly for genesis.vpatch
trinque: I see
the benefit of "this seal is just a messenger"
assbot: Logged on 10-11-2015 22:25:29; mircea_popescu: ie,
there, "it's not
the job of
the state
to protect
the cultural patrimony OF INDIVIDUALS and
their clans ; if
those individuals and clans are so degenerate, bankrupt and chlorotioc as
to no longer be able
to protect
their heritage, let
the worms havce it. no, not even for comunist metaphisics ; no,
the property of x isn't "ours", no x's history isn't "ours". let
them uphold it or let it die.
trinque: perhaps;
that's my first stab at a reaction
trinque: "This is what it claims
to be, and
that is all I say about it." -- mp
trinque: I don't
think all
the reasons for "why do I hate" can be represented usefully as a machine-grokkable header
trinque: I have an easier
time seeing
the benefit of a single bit of
tarnish + description why
jurov: that would be bad
thing?
trinque: how does it not
trend
towards facebook "reactions" for vpatches ?
jurov: vtron would just say
to you
that
the antisig from your wot exists
jurov: no, not override anything, such
thing is up for you
to decide
trinque: reminds me of key revocation actually, in
the bad way
trinque: the argument has yet
to be made
that I'd rather have your anti-signature override my other wot member's signature, rather
than your persuasion elsewhere having caused me
to delete his signature
jurov: for poor vtron
to be able
to distinguish signatures and antisignatures
jurov: no, i mean free
text + some indexable bits