312200+ entries in 0.193s
mircea_popescu: phf
that's her isn't it ?
the woman with a horse face ? carrie something ?
mircea_popescu: once
that was out, horseface exploded with her pretenses of being interesting and a writer like a sunned carcass.
mircea_popescu: it was
the last cork keeping
the derpy femitards in check, really.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, it's a special party where everyone invites ugly chicks pretending
they're pretty.
phf: asciilifeform:
that's
too witty for me, i'm just
typing all over
the place
phf: asciilifeform: i
thought current emacs is gosling emacs derivative?
mircea_popescu: somehow josling kept parsing as
the name of an activity.
phf: mircea_popescu: gosling,
the guy who designed java, is notable for recognizing
the right
thing, but intentionally committing an atrocity of java as a language for
the corporate programming. in one of his interviews he says something along
the lines of "at least we got ~them~
to use a garbage collector". before java gc was an explicitly lisp
thing, which is also gosling's pedigree
mircea_popescu: they decided
to live separated by age groups ; unlike saner people in europe and arab world,
they don't coerce young women into fucking old men
mircea_popescu: i don't
think
this is a man problem. imo
this is a family problem.
mircea_popescu: it's not even specifically highly complex, intellectually-intensive
things. fad diets consist of reruns.
phf: go
to
tapas bars or whereverfuck
phf: that's my impression of american "lucrative" corporate jobs
though, because people
that i know from
that place went on
to very similar places, and
that's what
they do. code as part of special clojure
team in a company
that's all java, or code in f# for a special f#
team in a company
that's all .NET.
they get drunk during lunch, shit faced on fridays
phf: then grads? probably, i mean it's
twenty year olds making six figures
to do fuck all in clojure
BingoBoingo: I bet
the people around you were somehow more insufferable
though.
BingoBoingo: So, basically
this job was like grad school, but with colleagues and paychecks
that could support not borrowing
to get sloshed?
phf: we had a sort of ritual
there, we'd go
to a whisky bar for lunch and
try
their
top shelf,
the goal was
to see how sloshed you can get for after-lunch-standup without mgmt calling you out
phf: that was also my first and last "corporate" job, which was interesting, i quit on
the first day after coming back from burning man
that same year. good
times.
phf: fwiw my first exposure
to clojure was a clojure job in finance industry, i did a couple of
talks on common lisp within airshot of
the hiring person from
the
team,
that was way before 1.0, and we must've been one of
the first corporations
to use clojure, because hicky made a point of coming
to a local
tech conference and speaking, i've had beer with him a few
times
phf: i
think
that would be npr
phf: and yet she exists within your mind as a placeholder for unwashed masses entertainment, if only we had
tlp
to write something about
that
phf: but
to your genuis of marketing point, not having even a decenarian math within flying distance, i don't really see a way out of
that one. guys design
their systems for
the masses, say as much in public, and yet somehow
there's wide adoption, because one has
to eat
phf: c-sharp lambda is definitely first class, i'm
trying
to remember if it has weird restrictions like
the python one
phf: hmm, i
thought c-sharp has a "real" lambda?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (it is, i
think, imitating
the rear engine block of 12 cyl 'ferrari' with its air cooled motor) << it is
phf: to be abcl would've benefited greatly from making
their java ffi as nice as
the one in clojure.
that is of course a marketing problem, and
that's something hicky
thought about very carefully
phf: mod6: it's not clear at
this point which school will bring sufficient clarity
to
this kinds of questions, without paying much more attention
to current industry fads. see
the
thread about mit and sicp.
they might mention halting problem in one class, and
then go
talking about proofs in Cog (if you're lucky or unlucky depending on how you look at it) in
the next, with no explicit connection between
the
two
mod6: is
this also related
to church-turing's paper surrounding
the entscheidungsproblem?
mod6: is
this like common knowledge
that I missed by not attending a college?
☟︎ mod6: putting everything aside, really, I want a machine
that will do stuff
that is deterministic, mathematically provable.
phf: also mccarthy said a few
times
that lisp has not much
to do with lambda calculus, he just completely misunderstood
the papers (or rather was inspired by
them)
mod6: i
think for me,
this is
the allure of something like lambda calc.
mod6: im at
the point of paranoia enough where if we can not write out our program mathemtically, mechanically,
then
there is some magic going on in
there. and
that freaks me out.
phf: it's not really a secret why java, every
time someone like alf starts
talking about cogs in
the machine
the inevitable answer is "duh",
that was
the whole point, josling says as much in his early interviews, including
the famous "at least we got
them
to grok gc"
mod6: WELL
THEN BROSEPH, EVERYTHING IS AWESOME!
mod6: these guys are crazy. i have
to bite holes in my
tounge every day.
phf: well, i
think anything short of common lisp is not really a lisp :P (i.e. reader macros, restarts, pervasive defvar/defparameter clarity, well
thought out function library, and such)
mod6: "Wow.
This is absolutely hysterical. Sorry dude, Clojure won. Get over it."
phf: scheme48 does it
that way, for example, with pre-scheme
phf: if you're buying your schemes from supermarket, sure, but my point is
that
technique is available as part of
the dictionary. can do a hybrid from
there, i.e. compiled subtrate
phf: why perverse? it's pretty standard for scheme
to be compiled
to C, it's a classical cps
technique, sort of a couple of next chapters away from how
tinyscheme is a classical interpreter
mod6: i
think
this program was called 'uplift' or something - it guys employeed it
to build vms quickly or w/e
☟︎ phf: unless we're
talking compsci 101 scheme
phf: actually
there aren't many schemes
that are interpreted, it's much more in vogue
to compile
them, since
that's an easy
thing
to do
mod6: actually, we
tore our hair out
mod6: i've only used one clojure application and it was a very haphazardly implemented docker-like
thingy.