308600+ entries in 0.198s
a111: Logged on 2016-04-20 15:23 mats: 'its so high nobody could possibly ever want
to pay for it unless it was
to launder money' ???
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-20#1454005 <<< it was explained originally and has
to be explained periodically [because
the flies have infinite hitpoints only in aggregate, as
the fly swarm, otherwise live for half a year as individuals]
that
the principal point of
the fee is specifically
to keep fees away.
☝︎ mircea_popescu: in any case - practice prevails.
this ("modder people use sql
to de") reads
to me exactly like "porn people use vhs" did in 1980. it's not
that it's over for betamax. it's
that "what is
this and where's
the vhs."
mircea_popescu: it'll never wash. if it washes at some point in some circle,
that's proof positive
the circle in question is made of shit. maybe more or less invidious shit, depending, but shit nevertheless.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-20 14:56 mats: solrodar: 'i don't understand
this financial instrument so
the operator must be laundering money'
trinque: mircea_popescu: yep, it suffers from having been given an inane syntax,
the smell of which drives people away from
the relational model
mircea_popescu: PeterL i dun know
that
the "selection of assets" was ever
the criteria.
mircea_popescu: trinque incidentally, i received confirmation from a rather unlikely quarter
that your "SQL is
the DEF" idea is spot on : apparently people in games [modders, people who do
the auction websites, etc etc,] have long ago and unviersally agreed
THAT is how
to DE. pic :
http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-04-20.log.html#t07:32:45 shinohai: I am sure Argentine Bitcoiners are laughing at
their little Chilenos
today.
davout: "Estimated BTC
Transacted: 0.0001 BTC" <<< win
solrodar: but when I first came across it a year or so ago, I got
the impression
that 2012 was
the what bliss in
that dawn
to be alive
☟︎ phf: enough of
these self contained but intertwined economic activities (s.nsa and s.bbet hosted on s.host selling parts
to ...) and you get something interesting
phf: both are fledgling processes, self contained by implicit
tmsr rules. as economic activities
they could never
the less grow and gradually eat more of
the outside world
☟︎ phf: from
that perspective it's not strange at all
that s.bbet was "zero assets", or s.nsa doesn't pay for ascii's maryland house
solrodar: and all
those
things mean
the share price of mpex itself would rise
phf: from
that perspective 50btc is just
that, if
there's a return on it 5 years from now, and continued return after
that, you get +ev. more companies get listed
today or in a year, list own company, etc.
phf: hence all
the
talk of berkshire, intentional cultivation of "bitcoin company" values, ideological separation from fiat,
tmsr, etc.
phf: mpex value hinges on long
term viability of bitcoin as a way
to store and accumulate wealth
solrodar: were you hoping
to get your money back from day-trading, dividends, long-term investments, or what?
solrodar: I'm interested in how
the maths could have made sense
phf: nah, i wasn't considering in october, by october i've decided i'm not going
to
phf: solrodar: you're reading
tea leaves
solrodar: and he admitted as much when he said "By now its opacity verges on
the ridiculous."
solrodar: yeah, so I'm not saying it was a ponzi, or any other kind of scam, just
that he wasn't being entirely up-front about what was going on
☟︎ phf: but membership purchase is
the core of ponzi, where's undisclosed source of income is
the diversion (like herbalife sales)
phf: heh
that's actually a good idea
solrodar: income from people "buying accounts" when
they weren't really buying accounts
solrodar: my suggestion is
that
that was actually
the case
solrodar: but you know how ponzi schemes usually claim
to have some undisclosed source of income
☟︎ mats: only a poor and unimaginative fella would say
the
things you did
this morning
solrodar: only a USG agent would assume
that was a bad
thing :P
mats: you used
the phrase money laundering.
solrodar: evidently investors did actually get
their money back
mats: because you can't possibly conceive of a reason why ~you~ would do it,
the activity must be fraudulent?
mats: you
think folks wouldn't pay
to
trade in
the stock of a single company?
solrodar: because
there's no actual economic activity in
the system
solrodar: 3) and on which practically nothing was
traded except
the shares of
the exchange itself
☟︎ mats: there is nothing unbelievable about a fee like
that being
tenable when it is 1) an exchange
that has never been hacked 2) operated by someone with a serious presence in
the wot
phf: mats: it's
the muckraking from b-a spilling over
to here
mats: 'its so high nobody could possibly ever want
to pay for it unless it was
to launder money' ???
☟︎ mats: i also don't know what
the fee has
to do with anything
deedbot: solrodar rated davout 1 << competently completed BitBet receivership in only
two weeks (tm)
mats: it got a little harder when mpex stopped offering options, but s.mpoe had a lot of volume for a long
time precisely because it was valuable and served as a symbol for
the exchange
solrodar: shinohai: not butthurt in
the slightest, davout was clearly
the better candidate
phf: so whether or not mp is a scammer,
the greater framing of
this conversation, makes certain allegations not only irrelevant, but also inane
phf: i actually did some maths and was ready
to drop 50btc on an mpex account, but held off for
the main reason
that i don't see a solution (and
there wasn't one found)
to minor collusion problem.
that conversation happened ~last october~ (or whereabouts), it was framed as a hypothetical, but it was a long precursor
to chinese miner conferences (that in
turn was serious grounds
to suspect potential cartel) and all
that other stuff.
phf: i'm sure a person who's ready
to drop 50btc on a
trading account will do ~minimal~ amount of due diligence
to confirm
that mpex is a viable
trading platform ~at
the moment~
phf: so now idiots are going
to look at
the past couple of months and point at patterns, "where's
the 50btc account creations!"
phf: that decision had causes
that in
turn
took several months
to form and manifest as
these
things usually go
phf: meanwhile couple of months ago mp explicitly said
that he's starting a process of divesting from bitcoin,
that was before bitbet, before ~anybody~ had voiced any kind of objections
to anything
phf: mats:
the "mp is a scammer" crowd is riding on an 18btc bitbet incident, and will continue
to do so no matter what happens. remember how everyone was losing
their shit, "all bitbet money is gone!!1"
PeterL: I
think he meant
the 50 btc account creation fee
mats: i assure you, i am a real person, and have received many withdrawals from mpex over
the last
two years.
that are on
the blockchain.
mats: and what are you even
talking about, re: 'these alleged payments aren't on
the blockchain' ?
PeterL: did he file
the AML paperwork for all
those account fees? No,
therefore must be money laundering!!!
mats: you
think he paid out 250k btc from account fees?
mats: solrodar: 'i don't understand
this financial instrument so
the operator must be laundering money'
☟︎ mod6: hah, "hey someone put some unicode in
this j.."
PeterL: could be all sorts of
things
solrodar: after it passes
through his "payment network"
PeterL: oh, no, solrodar has iritated
the priest of
the cult of mircea_popescuism
solrodar: but what I was
thinking is, he's got some private arrangement whereby people pay him "account fees" and
then get most of
that money back in some other manner
deedbot: danielpbarron rated solrodar -1 << I find it implausible
that
this guy has anything interesting
to say
PeterL: solrodar so what was it, mp buying his own product
to increase volume?
solrodar: and
then a few weeks after someone notices
these alleged payments aren't on
the blockchain
solrodar: it looked like
the world's first unintentional ponzi scheme
solrodar: did nobody else find it implausible
that he claimed
to be able
to find at least one person every month willing
to spend $20,000 for access
to an exchange where nothing was
traded but shares of
the exchange itself?
solrodar: my guess is
the whole
thing's now just a cover for money laundering
solrodar: PeterL: I doubt
there have been any real account fees paid for years
PeterL: so, with
the diminished selection of assets listed on mpex, are you going
to lower
the account fee?
a111: Logged on 2016-04-20 03:11 mircea_popescu: meh. mpex managed
to flush
the book. everyone is kindly asked
to reintroduce whatever orders
the had. apologies for
the inconvenience.
PeterL: mircea_popescu did you clear
the orderbook on purpose?
punkman: also makes me
think about what would happen in "underhanded bash install script contest". change a couple chars, pwn
target?
mircea_popescu: "gee i wonder why a fresh install of X
takes 2gb when
the package is 200mb ?"
punkman: mircea_popescu: give
the show away
to who?
the guy piping
to bash?
shinohai: This being
the UK I am willing
to bet
the server admin was a Pajeet.
shinohai: Trying
to work up a hilarious angle on
the 123-reg.co.uk lulz
this morning.
mircea_popescu: "oh look,
this 16kb script download
takes > 1mb hurrr"
mircea_popescu: punkman isn't all
that buffer-filling shenanigans going
to give
the show away anyway ?
trinque: but I have
the new one eating deeds; a bit more work and deedbot- will not be needed anymore
trinque: davout │ deedbot's dead? << seems
to be having some
trouble with whatever's going on with freenode
these days.
BingoBoingo: Gives an opportunity
to establish contrast and your values.
BingoBoingo: davout, I was kind of waiting on you
to be ready. Prolly should come after BitBet business is finished.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-07 13:08 mircea_popescu: anyone cares enough
to see if whoever's left at paymium wants
to do a qntra interview ?
mircea_popescu: meh. mpex managed
to flush
the book. everyone is kindly asked
to reintroduce whatever orders
the had. apologies for
the inconvenience.
☟︎ mod6: mike_c: hey, got
thos zocchi dice, and
they look awesome. really great edges. i don't have a micromoter or whatever, so i can't really give a good break down at
this point. but maybe in
the future, will have a more comprehensive report.
shinohai: I got lazy on
that project
tbh but glad it is actually working
mod6: thanks for
the update &
testing shinohai
phf: (some
things broke from incomplete state deploy, but
things should be back
to normal)
shinohai: Got
tired of borking wallet.dat's using cruddy pywallet