log☇︎
307500+ entries in 2.377s
mircea_popescu: ideally your machine would come with a one disk onetimepad
asciilifeform: on a new machine architecture, that crypts ram/disk natively, and a number of other essentials...
mircea_popescu: basically a sort of otr for ip
mircea_popescu: somebody needs to make a new tcp/ip stack
asciilifeform: the one common idea here is that keeping one's money in a public toilet is a Bad Thing.
optimator: wasn't it all? I mean what could go wrong with a local hosts file?
asciilifeform: my point, though, is that even if you dispense with the convenience of sessions and go the full-bore "hair shirt" with a paper one-time-pad or whatnot, a compromised machine is still a compromised machine.
mircea_popescu: female circumcision makes comparatively a lot more sense.
mircea_popescu: actually tbh the "logged in" concept, rested on supposed sessionization of a stateless protocol is, imo, the most ridiculous idea of mankind to date.
asciilifeform: what, just because she's a girl?
optimator: "If mircea trusts me with BTC I cant be too much of a fuckup." optimator wipes tear
asciilifeform: the proper course of action in a case like this is to 1) publish a (sanitized) image of your hdd and 2) perform manly seppuku if necessary
mircea_popescu: basically this is a stolen session
asciilifeform: wait a sec, this was your camgirl ?
asciilifeform: someone should sit with the chump, and patiently explain that mtgox doesn't talk to your yubikey. it talks to your idiot consumer pc that happens to have a yubikey plugged in, and a display that can output whatever your new owner wants it to.
asciilifeform: "my house was raided by interstellar bandits, and they took my TV set to alpha centauri." - "please file a police report."
asciilifeform: gotta love the advice to file a police report
asciilifeform: and if you find a fresh one, I do hope you have better sense than to tell us.
optimator: assuming the base has been compromised, or our you suggesting the base could become compromised through a virtualized OS
mircea_popescu: "TC gives you a false sense of security so its worse than no partition encryption."
mircea_popescu: this is not a bug as much as a hosting feature
asciilifeform: so you can rent a "server" to chumps without actually using one up
asciilifeform: vm escapes run the spectrum from the apocalyptic to the "it always worked this way and we don't give a fuck"
mircea_popescu: "Then running your operating system on the other side of this brand new pile of shit. You are absolutely deluded, if not stupid, if you think that a worldwide collection of software engineers who can't write operating systems or applications without security holes, can then turn around and suddenly write virtualization layers without security holes."
mircea_popescu: "x86 virtualization is about basically placing another nearly full kernel, full of new bugs, on top of a nasty x86 architecture which barely has correct page protection."
asciilifeform: as it should be. but if a PC is involved, you might run into strange one day
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform except i never use a site over https anyway
optimator: asciilifeform: don't forget this approach to compromising ssl sercurity - https://freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/sjs/how-the-nokia-browser-decrypts-ssl-traffic-a-man-in-the-client/
asciilifeform: alternatively, a drive-by is used to make your machine click "yes" for you.
asciilifeform: now you go to a site with routinely botched ssl, like mtgox (at least in the recent past), and then click "what the hell" when your browser complains
mircea_popescu: a linux box, rather than a router, for convenience.
mircea_popescu: Used bitcoin-qt and litecoin-qt. For the wallets, those encryption passwords were from memory. The truecrypt password, I always copied and pasted the password from a text file, on a USB drive, inside a password protected winrar file, inside of a password protected winrar file, inside of a password protected winrar file, totaling 3 different password protected rars to reach the .txt file.
mircea_popescu: "I figured if I was ever the victim of a wallet stealing program, implementing a dummy in the default location would fool it and upload it, rather than my real one, to the attackers choice, but I was wrong."
asciilifeform: my other point is that btc ups the ante for working on hard targets as well as soft ones. you can do some very nice MITM with a compromised router, for instance.
asciilifeform: jre is just a well-known egregous case. drive-bys are regularly discovered in just about every consumer browser
mircea_popescu: "I know I've found this one thing that I just have to download and install Java for, then totally forget or put off uninstalling it afterwards, many a time."
mircea_popescu: "In fact, scratch the social engineering, you don't need to convince someone to run your .exe if you can just run your .exe for them via a Java drive-by attack, and admit it, you've left Java installed for extended periods of time, even if you try to keep it uninstalled normally."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform bitcoind is such a mess it'd be easier to make a million dollars being a janitor.
asciilifeform: SSL is a joke by design.
optimator: asciilifeform: no - and it kinda freaks me out. I think SSL cert authentication through a PKI is a gapping hole
mircea_popescu: I used a random 64 character ASCII character password from this site for my truecrypt password.
asciilifeform: truecrypt in particular is trivially broken on a compromised machine.
asciilifeform: an amoeba colony, but in a public toilet, waiting for the janitor and his chlorine.
optimator: it's hard to assess to validity of any claim, but there is a common factor between her story and this one - http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1e79ig/how_were_my_encrypted_bitcoin_and_litecoin/
asciilifeform: my only argument, really, is that btc as we know it is a soft target, and that life will become considerably more interesting once the truly competent people take an interest in playing.
asciilifeform: so it is entirely conceivable that a yubikey-enabled gox diddler exists but has managed to infect only paupers
asciilifeform: I study trojans for money. Most BTC botnets, for example, are quite pitiful (a handful of GH/sec.)
mircea_popescu: that good a trojan ?
asciilifeform: nobody had to, but a trojan
asciilifeform: one more observation: yubi works by emulating usb keyboard. which makes for a very simple man in the middle, esp. if you press the button an extra time.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> there is only so many times that this can happen without a real effect
asciilifeform: also remember that chumps have a tendency to lie to themselves
mircea_popescu: but it wouldn't be the first website with a broken 2fa implementation.
mircea_popescu: fuck me. the idea of a website is ridiculous
asciilifeform: or that mtgox has a session remanence bug
asciilifeform: every ion cannon has to be fired at a diseased goat during development
mircea_popescu: and let's presume for a moment you have no better use for it than btc.
asciilifeform: true, it will generate a Bezzle.
mircea_popescu: well a 51% attack wouldn't generate btc.
asciilifeform: not into or from the aether, but into a more clever man's pocket, from a chump's.
mircea_popescu: right, what io'm sauying is, this is a working prototype
asciilifeform: a USB thumb drive from virtually any manufacturer, for instance, does
asciilifeform: or, likely, it has a firmware upgrade endpoint (most usb devices do, whether documented or not.)
asciilifeform: the link appears to talk about a traditional wallet heist
asciilifeform: there is only so many times that this can happen without a real effect
mircea_popescu: well if it's a stochastic process, prolly.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, they don't trust themselves enough to believe their eyes. if respected people don't say there's a problem, there's no problem.
asciilifeform: this is like saying that a bullet hole is no big problem so long as the wound mostly closes back up after the bullet exits.
asciilifeform: you might not even need a strict 51% for that
asciilifeform: at this point, the objective wouldn't necessarily be a straightforward monetary one, but to drive people to questionable altchains
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the reasoning is that basically bitcoin is a sort of morphism on the fiat world, and i am pretty convinced by now that the 51% attack is the local equivalent of the market cornering problem.
asciilifeform: a whimper, not a bang.
asciilifeform: if anybody's been wondering what a 51%/doublespend trigger pull will look like: it will look exactly like this.
mircea_popescu: i mean it looked fucking weird as all hell for a coupla hours there, but...
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves nah there was a 1hr+ pause just as the new bitcoind changed signature rules making it look like a multifork
ThickAsThieves: so i skimmed, but essentially we have a weird empty block, likely malicious intent, and possible fork?
benkay: her mircea do you have a link on hand to your piece commenting on monetary sterilization"
optimator: imagine a queue that you are pushing new txs on. You keep building it up, but when a new block is found the queueu is emptied
optimator: we'll it's beyond a long shot - within seconds new work is pushed with transactions. Otherwise the miners would be working on work for a block that had already been solved
optimator: ezdiy: when a new block is found the pool code pushes work out with no txs. it does this while it builds the new merkle root. that way the miners have work immediately
gribble: Error: "blockas" is not a valid command.
mircea_popescu: for a pool.
ezdiy: look at blockchain info, there was *over a hour* gap between blocks
gribble: Error: "blockhieght" is not a valid command.
gribble: Error: "block" is not a valid command.
ezdiy: mircea_popescu: yeah, there was a hour-or-so gap
gribble: Error: "difchange" is not a valid command.
TheSeven: this is a 0.8.1 node
mircea_popescu: it would seem over about a dozen nodes there's something like... 8 diff chains/orphans ?
jborkl: storing orphans like a bitch though
ezdiy: well, lets wait for a bit
jborkl: this has to be a fork
jurov: "I have pretty many coins and I store them with pretty many precautions. By many, I mean that it takes me an approximately 16 hours of my prime work time to do it, and it also does not happen without a considerable monetary cost."
ezdiy: and maybe learn a thing or two about finance in the process
dub: and also a classic case
dub: I think ezdiy has a calssic case of 'I'm chatting on the internet therefor I know everything'
deadweasel: when my bitfury asic gets here, I'm putting a fan on it 0.o
ezdiy: to have a leak proof tank, pumps, heat exchangers etc, if you can just use fans
deadweasel: you could just pump the oil around a little faster
ezdiy: mineral oil makes sense if you have a lot of components with thermal surface