305200+ entries in 2.108s
[\]: I wasn't
a partner or anything
[\]: mircea_popescu: what was I handling
a year ago?
kakobrekla: paypal is
a scam and half of the world uses it
dub: mircea_popescu: I don't really see it in the current system but I'm not ruling out the utility of
a !btc transaction system of some form
Namworld: oh, plus making
a post when I saw the Ripple thread
Namworld: Not my fault if XRPs is designed to be
a currency like any other IOUs, on top of serving as tokens for transactions.
Namworld: suddenly, people started buying XRPs for
a fuckton of BTC
Namworld: The dumbest thing I've seen in
a while.
Namworld: Also, I sent money when I sent the BTC IOUs in
a send money transaction
Namworld: If people valuate XRPs it becomes
a currency traded on the system just as much. Technically, XRPs are designed to trade exactly the same as any other issued currency on the system.
mircea_popescu: Namworld you're uysing
a literal definition, he's using
a more metaphorical one
dub: its just convenient that its turned into
a system to transfer
a lot of BTC to its creators
dub: its 'sold' as
a way to transfer value between two parties, not transfer value to holders of XRPs
Namworld: Ripple is
a multicurrency trading platform.
Namworld: Instead of
a good being purchased tho, I got funds redeemed, actual BTCs
mircea_popescu: complete "i fucking don't understand what bitcoin is so here's
a cat with
a pancake on its head. just as good"
Namworld: Which is technically what I did when I sent BitStamp's their IOUs back. It's sending
a payment through the send money feature.
mircea_popescu: "Even Roger Ver,
a.k.
a. "Bitcoin Jesus" has to pay his supply chain to keep the Bitcoin Store running, so he can't use Bitcoins either. Roger Ver doesn't accept Bitcoin, he accepts US dollars from BitPay. If even Bitcoin Jesus isn't interested in Bitcoins themselves, then why not let customers use their local currencies from the get-go and take out the Bitcoin middleman?"
Namworld: Of course I could also have sent IOUs or XRPs as
a payment transaction
Namworld: Not that I sent money in
a transaction
Namworld: WHich is
a trade between two users
ericmuyser: and BitStamp is
a single node many people trust to exchange on their behalf, and not die
mircea_popescu: basically there's
a reason retards were trusting each other randomly
Namworld: credit issuer gets nothing. Unless they charge
a fee for creating these IOUs
dub: the credit issuer gets
a cut right?
mircea_popescu: you're basically providing liquidity, the only sane way this works is if you get
a % fee for each guy you trust
ericmuyser: and i dont want my friend giving away my money to
a friend in need
Namworld: Actually you can trust each issuer for
a different amount...
ericmuyser: I would like to see approval requests/convos and whatever else. i trust
a friend with 100 but i want to review what i'm trusting him with and for what, if it's
a good reason etc.
mircea_popescu: irl trust is always to something. i trust you to suck my cock, but not to bake me
a pie.
furuknap: Exactly. So, for anyone other than currency traders and speculators, I can't really see any benefit to Ripple. It doesn't have value beyond the value of
a stamp, it doesn't solve any problems that haven't already been solved, and it's just another headache for users when they want to just pay the damn bill at the restaurant.
furuknap: Sure, but if I get
a $1000 IOU from BofA, I can sell $124 of that without having to get BofA to issue
a $124 and
a $876 IOU.
ericmuyser: i can go on there and say i have
a million dollars or 100 baseball collectors cards, and you can say you trust i have them and what you value them at
Namworld: Could be used as
a cement between various IOUs, since it might be hard to find
a trader to trade your IOUs for another specific IOU
ericmuyser: that doesn't make it
a currency? it's an asset
ericmuyser: currency for what? it's being converted as
a currency on an exchange but not used in transactions
Namworld: I guess XRP could be used as
a default currency
ericmuyser: Namworld: because at some point they expect people to have
a wallet of xrp of course, the same as btc. but they could make payments from their ripple wallet using btc. either way, you're in ripple world
Namworld: XRPs are already being used as
a currency, just like litecoins
furuknap: Litecoin has been adopted! I'm
a Litecoin fanboi so don't speak badly of my second mistress.
ericmuyser: it is built to make transactions, but it's currently only an exchange because no one has adopted it, in the same way no one has adopted litecoin - is litecoin
a currency?
furuknap: So... One more question... If they are tokens, why does it matter that the founders premined and kept XX% themselves? It's like having
a gazillion postage stamps that can be used only to send mail but with no other value?
Namworld: Cause people are retarded and use XRPs like
a currency
Namworld:
A currency exchange which skips banks and other things
Namworld: It's
a platform to move money around
furuknap: Why would I want to transfer my money through an exchange? I just want to buy
a cup of coffee or tip the stripper...
furuknap: And you have to trust that issuer. I understand so far. I just don't understand what it gives me as
a normal person, having X of currency Y, beyond the ability to change X of Y to Z of W.
Namworld: Ripple is not
a currency. It's not
a type of money. It's
a platform.
Namworld: But that's
a complete money laundering headache
furuknap: Nobody, but my friends would buy
a BTC from me an pay me in Norwegian kroner.
Namworld: You could, for example, trade
a Gox 1 BTC IOU on ripple for 130 USD IOUs from BitStamp with another Ripple user.
furuknap: So... You run exchange X and I buy an IOU from you to sell it back to you? In other words,
a plain, regular loan?
furuknap: They'll shortly be upgrading the wikipedia article to list Crypto-Trade as
a typical example.
Namworld: The thing is, XRP isn't really
a currency. It's tokens to make transactions...
mircea_popescu: what
a fuckwit that guy. "not open" "centralised" vs "ponzi" how are these "the same" ?
ThickAsThieves: if i had bought bitcoins instead of lunch
a few years ago id be rich!
furuknap: Cool. Of course, if Bitcoins goes to $1M each, then you'd also be famous for being the person that bought
a Bentley GT for $375M.
furuknap: The site is trading with
a massive 4 full AM shares, though (it's
a 1/1000 PT) so I'm not expecting any huge market moves elsewhere.
furuknap: I haven't looked into that exchange at all, but the AM PT just recently launched so either someone is very stupid or very brave if this is
a scam site.
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, if you've never tried having
a girl sit in your lap while you're sitting on one of those large yoga inflatable rubber balls you must do so forthwith
mircea_popescu: thats
a good example cause he seemed real trustworthy all through and never had
a good reason to disappear
TomServo: I thought the problem was not having to trust
a third party?
ThickAsThieves: is u wanna arb without the risk of taking
a position on all xchanhes
ThickAsThieves: typing from mobile, but it seems to me you guys are requesting
a feature of inter exchange xfer,
mircea_popescu: maybe. i'm still not sure why exactly it is
a problem.
mircea_popescu: well, leaving aside that there isn't
a 2nd mpex to begin with, having no hierarchy means you'll have to face the byzantine problem
jurov: mircea_popescu: there is no possibility for
a corporation to have multiple counterparties on the same level as mpex
mircea_popescu: and so at the interface between hard and soft you will have
a gap
jurov: then it will be only
a question to get exchanges to recognize them
pgp: ok - so the sort of thing that is possible today is much like ADR and ordinary shares. They are convertible for
a fee, they trade on different exchange, and it's
a hassle to convert.
BitHub: BF mpex intergration example, i could have an account at bf and mpex and buy shares from bf and transfer it to mpex for
a fee, both exchanges share the fee. Now i can trade my sdice shares on mpex, vice versa
pgp: but having some sort of non exchange controlled mechanism to prove, for example, that there are no conterfiet share out there, seems like
a worthy goal
BitHub: digital stock cert could be linked to
a qr code or something <--n00b at this stuff
pgp: btw, you most certainly can request
a stock certificate at any time - hassle and not common - but people do it for many reasons
pgp: yes, but let's look at how it work for financial markets. I can hold
a stock certificate in my name (personal wallet), or I can deposit with my broker and put it in "street" name (broker's wallet and trade it on an exchange - ANY exchange - in the US that would mean 7 major exchanges, but 20 or so dark pools. Every share is identical and fungible.
pgp: ok - so - why are "colored coins" such
a bad idea? I am not suggesting any sort of p2p exchange, just ledgering and the ability to trade you shares on differenet exchanges.
qxzn: pgp: "I'm refering to
a idea about moving asset custody. For example, why not have
a mechnism "like" the blockchain to move ASICM to whatever exchange you want." this sounds
a lot like ripple
TomServo: I will take
a look. Honestly, I don't know much other than it sounds like the glbse closure was
a fuckshow.
TomServo: Or an owner of assets on
a failed exchange, I should say.
TomServo: Would it somehow allow
a failed exchange to transfer shares to another? Or is that not even an issue?
furuknap: For instance, again not particularly thought out, bans on shares held by denoted key insiders before or during important events.
A deadlock on trades with those shares could reverse the trade (to be declared to the buyer) if breach of whatever happened.
mircea_popescu: what we're looking for is
a conceivable problem they might solve.
furuknap: OK, so here's one problem that current asset market doesn't solve. Insider trading or what we consider unethical price manipulation, legal or otherwise. I don't have
a solution, but
a BTC-based or derived system may bring forth ideas that could control or somehow reverse illegal actions, as defined by whatever jurisdiction.