tmsr - Search: i

30900+ entries in 0.213s

diana_coman: it's still open to discussion as far as I can see it so any comments are most welcome

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835518 << linus is not immortal, and i expect that he will lose control of kernel -- just as he stupidly lost control of his trademark to 'linux foundation' (y'know, with gavin on staff) -- even before dies ☝︎☟︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-17 03:19 mod6: I'm saying in the instance of inquisition. I don't think there is any way to separate a willful liar from someone who lost control of their key.

a111: Logged on 2018-07-17 03:24 Mocky: if shortwave repeater was in l1 confidence and one day i became l1, i wouldn't see having to keep that secret as a burden.

a111: Logged on 2018-07-17 03:00 asciilifeform: Mocky: i grasp the argument, but must point out that all attempts to date to cudgel people into paying for software, have ended in tears ( usually for the cudgel-wielder )

a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 16:28 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: releasing binaries does not create this guarantee. even static elf, when put on a box where linus et al (or his successor) see it fit to subtly change the abi, will bomb, and not necessarily immediately. and i'ma still 'be idiot'

a111: Logged on 2018-07-17 02:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought of 1 far-conveyor item where i actually had it in my notes 'to be for l1 encyclical only' -- the shortwave repeater

a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: as we're contemplating an eulora client rewrite, i am contemplating the following code release paradigm : client author a) releases code encrypted to l1, signed and deeded (so basically, gpg -aer asciilifeform -r ave1 -r etc) ; b) releases precompiled binaries for allcomers.

spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834921 <-- I'm sold on the idea i. in particular for eulora, and ii. otherwise for it to be established on a case-by-case basis. for (i), I see nothing wrong with e.g. challenging users to reverse-engineer the client (or maybe I'm just nostalgic about game cracking/trainers). ☝︎☟︎

ave1: And the whole thing affirms the power/status of the Lords. I.E. when an author goes against a Lords wishes or AWOL it is then in the power of that Lord to contact another author and give him the source etc. ☟︎

ave1: I like it (I thinks it's paramount) that the republic is exclusive and not inclusive . (It then means something if you are included)

ave1: I find the 'if it can happen, it will happen' a strange argument. Let's say you let a friend stay in your house while you are away for a couple of months? Yes, he could destroy the house and steal the contents, still this arrangement works and has worked for many friends. ☟︎

ave1: Third, it is not about who leaked it (I do not care about that much). It's about trust and if L1 does not trust each other, then what?

ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834921, ack. I think it's a brilliant idea. Especially, points (2) and (3) and I'm not worried about the "keeping a secret" parts. First, I've worked for companies with an extensive secret code base (and this code is and has been secret for a long time > 30 years) . Second, all leaked sources are "illegal" anyway (as in this source was not sanctioned, so it's worthless). ☝︎

mircea_popescu: no i didn't mean right now

mircea_popescu: and i tend to play games from 20 years ago today still. which...

Mocky: or maybe not. i still have software from the 90's that I use on a daily basis, install straight from orig 90's cd

Mocky: if there turns out competition between clients, maybe i want to do something to get more market share

mircea_popescu: or i dunno, maybe you're the one guy who thinks need for speed only finally nailed the plot on installment 8.

Mocky: if shortwave repeater was in l1 confidence and one day i became l1, i wouldn't see having to keep that secret as a burden. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: anyway, it's altogether doubtful that this naive model of imperial "progress" ever applied to software. i don't expect lcients to become ever better over time.

mircea_popescu: yeah but i mean... i dunno, sometimes i feel like i'm the only one who was ever 12. so you're at camp, and someone spread toothpaste on the teacher's moustache while he slept. so ?

Mocky: i don't see it as a problem for the client writer. to the contrary i would expect clients to get regular updates and older versions less useful relatively over time. but maybe asciilifeform doesn't care about eulora at all, why involve when only possible involvement 'suspected of leak'?

mod6: I'm saying in the instance of inquisition. I don't think there is any way to separate a willful liar from someone who lost control of their key. ☟︎

Mocky: there's no way toknow, obviously. but if i wrote a client under this l1 confidence model, and it leaked not by me, i would suspect someone in l1... who else?

Mocky: if in the case of a confirmed leak, pointed questions could be asked even of those who never so much as looked at it. and i'm not saying answering questions is a big burden, but alternately not being suspected in the first place could be considered a benefit

mircea_popescu: i would expect it is actually a ~gain~ if one discovers he's leaking secrets unwillingly.

mircea_popescu: i suppose. though honestly, what is it, don't decrypt the deed, it'll sit there.

Mocky: this makes sense to me. the only thing i have against it is asciilifeform and mod6 argument about the burden of keeping secrets. while I don't see the proposed method as actually burdensome, i see the argument in the general case

Mocky: asciilifeform, i dont' even see it as an issue of paying for software: the paying or not doesn't need to differ from the case where minigame writes the official client

mod6: I figured, can't really help it with the old client. Was thinking maybe there is a new one in the works with some stuff that need not be open sores.

mod6: Or am I being retarded here?

mircea_popescu: notice that ~even today~ there's solid market in "music cds". if you want i can photograph the people outside trying to sell their shiny "extrenos"

lobbes: I could see someone creating a 'ecu casino' for the 'masses' indeed

asciilifeform: Mocky: i grasp the argument, but must point out that all attempts to date to cudgel people into paying for software, have ended in tears ( usually for the cudgel-wielder ) ☟︎

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform note i'm not forbidding anyone from ~publishing~ their client.

asciilifeform: admittedly asciilifeform is not a eulorist, but i had a very positive picture of it as -- including other things -- a kindergarten teaching tool for 'fuck people but do biznis with keys' , 'pubkey is the soul', etc

asciilifeform: unless, again, i misread , what's contemplated is to somehow make 'fetlife female morons' who won't pgp and won't drop winblowz etc use an authenticated piece of soft, somehow ( something that e.g. banks have not been able to accomplish )

mod6: Anyway Gentlemen, I think that currently this comes down to: 1) "How much do I trust the man standing next to me?" and 2) What are the consequences should others betray and leak my valuable assets?

asciilifeform: i've yet to encounter the case where the result was in some way confusable with the original

asciilifeform: sorta why i invoked fg as example -- recently i noticed a heathen who lifted the analogue scheme , but could not resist gluing it to the usual heathen whitener , because how could he resist.

asciilifeform: heathens are , as i currently understand, so unspeakably stupid that 'stealing fixed code' is not to date ever observed, they re-break as soon as they touch. ( any heathens stole trb for the shitfork warz, other than funkenstein ? )

mircea_popescu: i'm thinking more in the veins of, "really, you gave monkey ak ?"

asciilifeform: ftr i share in the traditional frustration ( which goes back to , yes, rms & the gpl folx ) where 'why should hitler get to use my proggy'. but imho it uncomfortably echoes that of the gurlz on arsebook etc, 'i want to write about my fucks but for ~everyone but mother~ to read'

mod6: I see this as even beyond the Eulora scenario, stretching out to any TMSR~ source; I just don't see a good way to solve it right now, other than being selective with who gets rights to see the $src.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought the eulora model was 'proprietary server, 9000 clients' ?

mod6: I'm not sure that we have the correct abilities to do such a thing at this time, at least on a policy based level.

asciilifeform: mod6: my original disagreement in $thread wasn't re 'sometimes gotta try to limit distribution to l1' -- it is very easy to think of cases where this is the obvious Right Thing -- but in re eulora client in particular, i still dun see what the eulora folx have to keep seekrit in the client ( i.e. what problem do 'heathens produce shoddy client' create, that ordinary pgp signature doesn't solve )

mod6: I would like for TMSR~ to retain it's own code; for many reasons, including preventing other possible fraud and snake-oil salesmen... a variety of things have been written about on the subject in here actually.

mod6: I'd like to say, that I don't think that it's an over all /bad/ idea, I'm just not sure if it's a good idea either. I think this might just be a case-by-case basis.

mod6: Another thing, I was thinking about was: Perhaps shipping the source to all L1, maybe let people request this themselves.

mircea_popescu: i dunno, i wouldn't use any online banking thing that didnt'; checksum

asciilifeform: i.e. like irc and unlike aol

asciilifeform: for some reason i thought that the thing was build specifically to be agnostic of client (i.e. so long as they speaks the published protocol, all clients work)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ( admittedly i haven't read the referenced item ) what's to stop client from sending to server the old hashes ? ☟︎

mod6: Another scenario that I was kind of thinking about is where: Lord X encrypts $src_code, drops it into deedbot, and $src_code is encyptped to {a,b,c,d}. Upon a future date, person 'a', is drummed out and neg-rated. Nothing stops person 'a' from still decypting that $src_code with his key, neg-rated or not. This is not wholly differnt than before... just saying that there's no "backsies".

mircea_popescu: consider the case at hand. i dunno if you've read the proposed protocol etc, but suppose it happens with euclient. so recognized owner creates a new set of binaries (i dunno, moves a class around say) and i use the new hashes for server, and so the leaker gets what exactly ? client for a server that won't talk to it ?

mod6: I've been trying to see how this doesn't end up with a bunch of finger-pointing once someone's source code is inevitably leaked. (If it can happen, it will happen.)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought of 1 far-conveyor item where i actually had it in my notes 'to be for l1 encyclical only' -- the shortwave repeater ☟︎

mod6: From the earlier discussion, I tend to see a lot of points from all sides. And quite an interesting discussion. I've been thinking on it all day.

a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: thoughts plox! (and i specifically want everyone to say at least an ack, so let's page asciilifeform ave1 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo danielpbarron diana_coman hanbot lobbes mod6 phf spyked trinque )

mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834927 << ack. There are certain projects that I can see the benefits of this. There are others where I can see it doesn't fit. ☝︎

mod6: Ok well, I'm all caught up here.

a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 16:51 mircea_popescu: i dunno specifically ; im not sure he ever said.

danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1835118 << never had a taker, and then the recipe stopped working. I could get back into it with a less pretty debian, which is what I'm currently using for Eulora ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 16:01 diana_coman: mircea_popescu, there is of course the fact that l1 is neither for life nor perhaps yet all that difficult to get in and out - I don't know whether this is a l1 matter or a s.mg board matter

danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834977 << if the goal is client competition, perhaps this is indeed a S.MG matter. I say this from the somewhat unique position of being a member of l1 who also plays and sometimes hacks the client ☝︎

mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2012/the-roaring-twenties/ << "Who is this guy?" "This is Eddie Bartlett." "How were you hooked up with him?" "I... I guess I've never figured it out." "What was his business?" "He used to be a big shot."

mircea_popescu: i kinda lost track of him myself ; but plox to maintain the wot in good working order from own pov.

shinohai: I think I'll order a couple and get on those experiments forthwith

shinohai: Welp asciilifeform I found the replacement for my fg: https://www.etsy.com/listing/614770978/d20-twerk-o-matic-booty-dice-butt-plug

lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834927 << ack. Closely following thread from $saltmines (will read gpggram once I return to key) ☝︎

BingoBoingo: <Mocky> i've been meaning to learn spanish. they got cute girls there? << Here we have them in most colors except African/Asian/Indian. The taller ones usually show up December/January

Mocky: correction, let me consider how i can make it happen

BingoBoingo: But I am available for guided tours

BingoBoingo: I can host a few nights, but this is a bit cramped for a two week stay.

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo do you like the idea of hosting or should i include an airbnb in his vacation package.

BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo do you have a guestroom/bed anything btw ? << I have a place to put a surface for guest accomodations

mircea_popescu: Mocky how about this, you pick two weeks this month/next, i'll pick up your airfare, BingoBoingo will set you up, and you can go hang out in uruguay.

mircea_popescu: i thought you were black!

mircea_popescu: so i hear.

Mocky: i've been meaning to learn spanish. they got cute girls there?

mircea_popescu: Mocky btw i was serious about uruguay. you ever thought of travel ?

BingoBoingo: On this sunny pleasantly warm alt-January day I went for a walk and returned to OMG logs

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i see binaries as a cache for src . ( exactly in fact how emacs sees it. ) and thereby i have approx same interest in downloading and running bins built by ~others~ , as in stuffing food they have pre-digested somehow into my own gut, bypassing mouth

diana_coman: asciilifeform, I enjoyed his stories during those 2-3 years when I read almost only SF, 16-18 or there about; when I re-read now I kept getting annoyed because I keep finding it starts well and then sort of veers into what he'd like the world to be rather than what it is

a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 16:31 mircea_popescu: i have to fucking compile every thing the 9000th time, i can't just put binary images on my 9001th rockchip ?!

mircea_popescu: uncharacteristically close to original, even has same ending. i just cleanned up the science a little.

Mocky: oh yes, that was good. but i never read the original

mircea_popescu: ahahah yeah. and imo did plenty of good, convinced me i'm a great poetastre!

Mocky: was reference to eulora item I read about in the logs: http://logs.minigame.biz/2015-08-08.log.html#t05:20:40

diana_coman: so go ane improve ye young man! uhm, old, I forgot it's me the youngun

mircea_popescu: i'm millitantly illiterate.

diana_coman: I thought of Sheckley's Ask a Foolish Question but it might be just me

diana_coman: I suspect for fun eulora can even sell 1 secret every 10 years and it won't hurt much, lol

mircea_popescu: diana_coman entirely my arbitrary call. i'll put whatever strings in there i put, and well... what can you do.

asciilifeform: ( i could picture a game that can survive players seeing the server, e.g. networked 'doom', but not all can )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think i actually grasp this