asciilifeform: run the proggy.

asciilifeform: err if i encrypt message=2 with key=10, i get same 5 as if i encrypt message=7 with key=10

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if i encrypt message=2 with key=10, i get same 5 as if i encrypt message=2 with key=10

asciilifeform: .. and how do i eat P[2] = P[2] x P[3] x P[5] , it's recursive

asciilifeform: so how does this diff from the previous item , what am i missing

asciilifeform: so, this is exactly the previous scheme, but with * rather than xor ?

asciilifeform: this in re 'to obtain P back from E and K'

asciilifeform: how does P[1] = P[1] x P[2] x P[4] work

asciilifeform: then i dungetit

asciilifeform: and you prolly meant 'P[1] = E[1] x E[2] x E[4] ;' neh

asciilifeform: aa

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's RB ?

asciilifeform: all 'enigma', regardless of what kinda lipstick is put on'em, are sad.

asciilifeform: the basic boojum is that it aint a cipher of any kind, and the ubiquitous sbox derpery is simply squid ink to obscure this. maslennikov details how he pointed this out to 1980s kgb and got sacked. ☟︎

asciilifeform: !#s maslennikov

asciilifeform: ( and if mircea_popescu's point was that ~all~ present-day 'block ciphers' are reducible to some variant of it -- the point is made )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: seems to me that ~now~ you correctly defined... the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867192 cipher. ☝︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: feel free to bake this by curing the little proggy pasted earlier

asciilifeform: diana_coman et al : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kH2Av/?raw=true << proper.

asciilifeform: grr, loox like i munged it, 1s, will fix

asciilifeform: ( define RL11 as 'rotate left by 11 bits inside 32bit reg' )

asciilifeform: diana_coman et al : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/uX1BM/?raw=true << for convenience, the recurrence eqs rewritten 1) as sexpr 2) with the orig constant-xors included

asciilifeform: aaha

asciilifeform: or else from what.

asciilifeform: well yes, presumably from E ?

asciilifeform: 'any one bit of P is the result of xoring of up to k bits of P' << y'mean 'any one bit of E' ?

asciilifeform: i suspect i'ma need some strong чифир for this chipher

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867215 << dun feel sad, serpent had to hang on asciilifeform's wall for 2yrs before this. ☝︎

asciilifeform: nao y'know wai asciilifeform dun have a tv..

asciilifeform: verily

asciilifeform hoses down vivisection table

asciilifeform: ahahayes

asciilifeform: see, you win phree toy, from this arcade.

asciilifeform: pretty handy proof , however, that the xor liquishit on the right hand side of those serpent eqs, doesn't conserve entropy ! ☟︎

asciilifeform: it's a crosscut-shredder, not a ciphrator..

asciilifeform: and before you ask, variant where either key or msg can be longer, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/AQPnG/?raw=true , and transpose msg and key for reverse, dun reverse either.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'write-only memory'

asciilifeform: ^ bits are printed in ascending majority, left to right

asciilifeform: e.g. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/K6AYY/?raw=true

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gWzx9/?raw=true , satisfy yerself that it dun reverse

asciilifeform: ok

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: your offsetting rotates (as e.g. ram on z80) or truncates? ( when message is shifted beyond the buffer bound ) ?

asciilifeform: ( having, that is, the key )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: meanwhile plz be so kind as to say how to decipher.

asciilifeform: pretty tired from curing serpent.

asciilifeform: sure, wainot , after tea

asciilifeform: shannon already showed how to break, it's in the kindergarden text

asciilifeform: it's multiply-run otp, wat.

asciilifeform: slightly, lol

asciilifeform: define weak!111

asciilifeform: i deciphered these with perl script, for a living, for yrs.

asciilifeform: it's about xor, in the specific style used in winblowz shitware to hide strings from av. ☟︎

asciilifeform: i did

asciilifeform: haha, after a fashion.

asciilifeform: lol you almost got me, i half-expected the piece to be about a block cipher

asciilifeform: lol

asciilifeform reads..

asciilifeform: ( they're broken up in the log, so possibly this is handier )

asciilifeform: diana_coman: can substitute with search-and-replace

asciilifeform: diana_coman: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/94fgv/?raw=true << the raw emacs-sewed recurrence equations, if it helps

asciilifeform: ( no hard dating for either , tho )

asciilifeform: yaya i have both papers here

asciilifeform: aite, won't distract then

asciilifeform: for lulz, would be interesting to dig up the list of 'luminaries' who voted for serpent. ( last i recall, it was public )

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm still boggled re the sheer wtf of it all.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: that's exactly what i remembered.

asciilifeform: ( i'd walk over to uni to try an' dig it up, but then remembered that they abolished the paper-papers archive for 'electronic' lulz )

asciilifeform: btw i seem to recall that the original mircea_popescu & diana_coman thread where 'let's try serpent' turned up that the current 'paper' is not in fact the original, and the orig has evaporated. nao gotta wonder what was in it.

asciilifeform: hilariously, i have a tall pile of academiliquishit re serpent right here on desk, and it ALL without exception dwells on the sboxes & lineartransform, 0 discussion of key schedule.

asciilifeform: ( i certainly didn't expect ~this~ 3days in... )

asciilifeform: whether asciilifeform takes month, week, or day, to cough up pill

asciilifeform: i do suggest to look for a spare tyre, tho, this one's hissing air.

asciilifeform: aite

asciilifeform: what bitness wouldja live with ?

asciilifeform: you dun need 'acres of crays' to walk 2**64 or however many, troo-keyz.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand not; we're at http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866454 . ☝︎

asciilifeform: washington can pay for its own auto-pill fpga, if they want one tho, i dun see why to do this work for them.

asciilifeform: i will, eventually, if nobody else can be arsed

asciilifeform: ( dun forget to acct for the constants )

asciilifeform: a proggy that takes a 256b key and shits out its 4+ sister-keys, prolly wouldnt hurt, either; if somebody can be arsed to write. ☟︎

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: mebbe give it a week, whoknows, somebody turns up a mistake in asciilifeform's maffs. then can qntra...

asciilifeform: i can't speak for other folx, but i'ma have to repeat h. hughes, 'fly in it? i wouldn't walk under it'

asciilifeform: i suspect that the thing was a mine planted specifically, if you will, for tmsr.

asciilifeform: b00k circa 2007 iirc

asciilifeform: relatedly, for shits & giggles asciilifeform has been reading a 'digital evidence' law school textbook, for entomological/ameritardological studies, and it goes out of its way to mention 'serpent sank an fbi case'

asciilifeform: 'omfg they bought it'

asciilifeform: quimby must have died of laughter by nao

asciilifeform: i feel pretty stupid, tbh, for not noticing in '16

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: cuz it ~is~

asciilifeform: rotleft-11

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yer xoring overlapped copies, remember

asciilifeform: i gotta take off my hat to whoever cooked that up.

asciilifeform: entirely possible also that the 'lost despite most votes' thing was engineered stunt.

asciilifeform: it also suggests a very different picture, vs the one i previously supposed, re why it didn't win the tourney. ( rather than washington:'omfg too strong', rather went 'omfg our academi.flunkies kissing arse so hard they cant breathe' )

asciilifeform: 'notation is worth +80 iq' or how did it go. ☟︎

asciilifeform: hey, it didn't click in asciilifeform's head either until asciilifeform went to fpgaize it..

asciilifeform: and for some reason this took 20yrs ?! to get out...

asciilifeform: thus far, afaik, we already know that there aint 2**256 possible 528-byte serpent expandedkeys. nor 2**128. and as i currently suspect, not even 2**64 .

asciilifeform: for our purposes, that means 'they subtract'.

asciilifeform: right