286200+ entries in 0.17s
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-01#1493859 << honestly, gpl, like everything else, started from
the wrong premise. an expectation
that "all people" WILL wreck your life, and everything you
touch. all
things, be
they science, be
they politics, be
they family, love, art, whatever
the fuck
they be - are exactly
that, a conversation between A SPECIAL KIND of people over whatever
time and space expanses. nothing is open
to
the "com
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-07-01 00:02 phf: and even if
the kommuniti picked it up and fucked it up we could've still had a "tmsr version -- last naggum release" baseline or whatever
a111: Logged on 2016-06-30 23:59 phf: asciilifeform: but
to get back
to my point,
the fact
that local-time as implemented by kommmuniti is shit doesn't have
to affect ~me~. i know what
the right way (or a better one) of doing
things is, but if naggum didn't write his paper, i wouldn't. i
thought
that's kind of
the WoT approach
phf: adlai: i
think
that bit is just
typo,
the '# switch, since
that's essentially dead code for all practical purposes
adlai exaggerates slightly, but
this doc is not a pill pusher, which is why i sought him out - confirmation bias ftw!
adlai: because he
thinks i should never
touch any drug ever. i didn't ask about coffee or glucose but myeah.
adlai: mircea_popescu: amazingly,
the last doctor i saw
told me
that i have
two choices:
take
the meds, or don't... but
tell people you're off
them
phf: and it will fail earlier
then it has
to
touch walk.lisp (i'm pretty sure)
phf: all.lisp does some very specific
things
phf: there aren't allegroisms in
there
adlai: then why does
the .asd have one file, "all.lisp"
phf: adlai: clm is not "compile all files without
thinking" system
mircea_popescu: but yes, you're entirely correct in
that
there's no such
thing as "scientific knowledge", in
the sense of a sort of secret football
team in
the sky
that plays and wins for
the average derp, once each day and
twice on sunday.
adlai: (and
the bugs are literal bitrot. random # appears in between ', because it feels like it)
adlai: amazingly enough software has a halflife even when at rest. CLM doesn't compile
today.
mircea_popescu: shoes for women
that actually work. you know,
to walk in.
mircea_popescu: you know what else was "explored, groked and
then... '''not accepted'''" ? linen.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-30 23:33 phf: or common lisp music which is a subset of common lisp
to describe a wavelength generation/transformation/composition (i'm pretty sure it was used
to do first computer FM synthesis)
trinque mistrusts anything other
than rsync for
this
a111: Logged on 2016-06-21 15:23 mircea_popescu: if
the item in question is uploaded via ssh-mysql directly, phpmyadmin (common mysql interface) dies when
trying
to say "edit"
the column, and wordpress itself fails
to pipe
the content
to apache.
phf: so plan9 actually got rid of find. you're supposed
to use `du|grep` for
that
phf: blood and
tears of windows users
mircea_popescu: and
then | du for good measure. because what it could possibly be needed for
mircea_popescu: next grep is going
to need a switch
to actually search
mircea_popescu: you know what, du has no reason
to even list
things other
than by size
mircea_popescu: yeah, why
the fuck not,
type pipes every
time, cus it's so fucking hard
to have a switch.
phf: that sounds more lafond
than mp ;)
trinque: could very well be
that computing is for
the nephews of 2100s Lords.
trinque: phf:
there's bad economic
technology at
the root of
the rotten
tree of computing, is my meandering rant
phf: asciilifeform: i'm not going
to be a proxy gabriel!
a111: Logged on 2016-06-30 23:30 phf: funny how a lot of
these ideas have been explored, grokked and
then promptly not accepted
phf: not
that you have
time of course :)
phf: you can lament over both, and work
towards both goals
trinque: I don't lament
that
there isn't some opensource naggum editor out
there; I lament
that I can't spend 20k or w/e and buy an actual computer
☟︎ trinque: I could see myself sharing
technology with someone if I see
that it benefits me in some way, or at large if it has some strategic benefit
to me, and not otherwise in service
to a philosophical code
trinque: how is a naggum supposed
to do anything if software is free
trinque: my reaction
to GPL earlier has
to do with
that. we're all lamenting
the wreckage, and wasn't it precisely
that
too many morons got involved in
the craft?
☟︎ trinque: phf: isn't
the reason he didn't
that he was
that car without fuel?
trinque does not want
to eventually say "if asciilifeform had built his computer"
mod6: Got
the next number of days off here. Gonna
try
to hit
the ground running here in July.
mod6: hey,
thanks
trinque o7
phf: and even if
the kommuniti picked it up and fucked it up we could've still had a "tmsr version -- last naggum release" baseline or whatever
☟︎ phf: if naggum wrote his emacs, or at
the very least started one,
then i wouldn't be necessarily stuck without a
text editor i could
trust or work with (hemlock being a particularly bad implementation, and emacs corrupted beyond redemption, etc)
adlai: CLM is
thoroughly bitrot ;_;
phf: asciilifeform: but
to get back
to my point,
the fact
that local-time as implemented by kommmuniti is shit doesn't have
to affect ~me~. i know what
the right way (or a better one) of doing
things is, but if naggum didn't write his paper, i wouldn't. i
thought
that's kind of
the WoT approach
☟︎ phf: amusingly enough java, via joda-time, is one of
the few solutions
that get it right
phf: amusingly where
the underlying
technology is super solid (because specced out by naggum) interface implementation is piece of shit, because written by kommmunitee
phf: 2 years from 2016-01-01 is
totally different from 2016-01-01T00:00:00Z
phf: well, problems start manifesting when you start doing math on your
times, and asking for
things like 2 years and 1 hour later, etc.
adlai: the number of bitcoin exchanges
that give human-readable
timestamps in API calls (because all API calls are done by hand and read by eye, right!?) is
too damn high
adlai: local-time:timestamp-to-unix and its vice-versa give you
this. i guess my use of local-time has been primarily
to display
timestamps readably
trinque: get-universal-time and whatever
the other one is, decode?
trinque: makes me feel better
that so far I've stuck with int representations of
time in my CL programs
phf: lugm-time makes it very explicit
that
this is a wrong behavior
phf: and of course, every single assumption ledger makes breaks, when you
twiddle you machine's system
timezone
phf: i got exposed
to library as part of my attempt
to revive cl-ledger,
that actually doesn't need
time component at all. as an accounting
tool it almost entirely deals with dates (except in its
timetracking functionality)
adlai: the unixification of common lisp is glorious
to behold, like galaxies colliding
adlai: but
then it wouldn't be unix enough!
phf: correct, but if it's
timestamp
then reader ~must~ fail on missing
times,
timezones
adlai: yeah,
the abstraction would better be called "timestamp"
phf: so 2016-01-01 will do very very wrong
things depending on specific
timezone combinations
phf: well,
there was a bunch of
things, so i'm just going
to hand waive it, but one major issue is
that it doesn't actually have a date,
time, datetime separation
adlai has
treated it as a black box of Just Fucking Works... what went wrong for you?
phf: for example naggum specced out "LOCAL-TIME" concept in his "long painful history of
time" paper, and it's an excellent solution. per your argument it's
true
that
the actual communal implementation of local-time is a piece of shit. (if you've never read it, it's really horrible)
phf: unication happening across long periods of
time and space among certain kind of individuals
phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-30#1493744 << i
think of
these projects in
the same
terms i
think of "knowledge" in general. same way as
there's no abstract scientific knowledge
that's somehow "accessible"
to "society",
there isn't universal good value
to naggum's emacs, but
there would've been value in naggum's ~to me~ as a kind of abstract node in what i'm hoping is a graph of sane people. same way as "scientific knowledge" is only a kind of comm
☝︎ phf: (actually news and display postscript are not
the same
technology, but same idea)
phf: or common lisp music which is a subset of common lisp
to describe a wavelength generation/transformation/composition (i'm pretty sure it was used
to do first computer FM synthesis)
☟︎ phf: for example NeWS was gui system
that did exactly what asciilifeform described, using what
they called display postscript
phf: funny how a lot of
these ideas have been explored, grokked and
then promptly not accepted
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-06-30 15:38 asciilifeform:
trinque: fact remains, if you
think i'm gonna run a binary, ANYONE's binary, for whatever reason, yer smoking dope.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-30 20:29 asciilifeform:
the beauty is
that you can impose hard limits on
the evaluating environments for
these 'programs',
them being non-turingcomplete, and
thus you can make mechanical hard pronouncements re
their properties.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-30 20:08 asciilifeform: (svg is a braindamaged monkey implementation of some of
the above principles.)