log☇︎
28600+ entries in 0.251s
mircea_popescu: Mocky why wouldn't you just act like a sane human being and tell them, "hey, i'd like to participate / work on this project."
asciilifeform: diana_coman: idea being, secrets have a place, if i did not believe this i would not have any interest in crypto. but their place is ~where must~, not ~wherever possible~
asciilifeform: diana_coman: it is precisely because i do not see a public outside of l1, that i regard the idea of 'l1-only publications' as in most cases wrongheaded
asciilifeform: even dope has a place, if you're a bomber pilot and flak killed your navigator, his assistant, and entire gun crew, and you're on the 71st hour of flying the somehow still-winged wreckage home , then yes, take the pill
diana_coman: asciilifeform, tbh I'm seeing it less and less as a "keep secrets" thing
asciilifeform: 1 problem , i suspect, is that keeping secrets is a ~pleasurable~ and addictive dope, and very often becomes a satisfying but entirely pointless substitute for actual work
mircea_popescu: have lotta "senators" who can't read, end up with a publicly funded cliffnotes agency.
mircea_popescu: if the answer is "you're a poopyhead", it'll have to be somehow resolved, neh ?
mircea_popescu: as long as you have a good answer should y ask.
diana_coman: I honestly don't see why would it be a problem to share with x but not with y in l1
mircea_popescu: it is after all a ~managed~ process, and misgivings should be aired rather than festered anyways.
mircea_popescu: the sticky issue of arbitrarily excluding some people from l1 in this sense is that why didn't you a) speak up during http://trilema.com/2018/the-rivers-of-blood-article-or-the-lordship-list-fifth-year/ and b) why wasn't whatever problem you saw remedied.
mircea_popescu: (i suppose you technically have to keep it around, if it happens you're stuck with somethign else you want in a bundle, but anyways)
diana_coman: my understanding of it so far is that code is made accessible to l1 only i.e. not delivered to each personally and requiring a stamp or something
mircea_popescu: Mocky i don't imagine it's a firm "all l1 absolutely or no deal". it was just phrased exemplarily.
mircea_popescu: type 1 is very different from type 2 ; it's perhaps how you train a slave, or how you make a friend, or whatever. type 2 is very ~visible~.
mircea_popescu: you have no idea what the crab expects. so the hermit crab, yes ? it has no lungs. nor does it have fish gills. what it has is a sort of spider-like book things ; and they need to be wet, but in air. in water--drowns. if dried -- asphyxiates. talk about evoluted tech.
asciilifeform: just as 'voodoo from a distance' pre-dated the ballistic rocket etc.
mircea_popescu: such a bitcoin advertisement, that thing.
mircea_popescu feels the urge to include "- the human animal is a beast that dies and if he's got money he buys and buys and buys and I think the reason he buys everything he can buy is that in the back of his mind he has the crazy hope that one of his purchases will be life everlasting!—Which it never can be… " for the pleasure of future readers.
asciilifeform: for the most part, 1980s crapple soft ~actually ran~ on the ppc iron. and for a few yrs into their intel product line, ppc proggies -- also ran !
mircea_popescu: let me tell you something about the crabs, i found fascinating last i was getting a beach blowjob. so, they all move in ~same direction, as far as eye can see, thousands of them. and as you say, right, "all that is mine i carry with". now, if they happen to run into some food, they'll stop a little, have a little, MOVE ON. they make 0 attempt to ~carry the food~. or even search for it.
mircea_popescu: phf a ok.
asciilifeform: it's more or less the 1 and only thing console maker promises to the buyer. ( otherwise buyer would buy a comp )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: possibly tangentially, have you ever been tempted to distribute eulora as a physical device ?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman note that "binary identity" is not even necessary a premise. you can go "hey shithead, why the fuck are you linking dynamic mysql when there's been a static one for five years". or w/e. ☟︎
asciilifeform: the other pertinent fact is that we don't have 'eternal' bins until we have a pinned-down kernel, and the latter requires pinned-down iron.
asciilifeform: the other pertinent distinction is that phuctor is not meant as a building block to use inside other systems. pretty much whole rationale for asciilifeform's refusal to publish whole thing, is specifically to prevent/delay such attempts at use.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i suspect the folx who stole phuctor v.1 and v.2 src discovered, and prolly not much surprise to anybody else, phuctor is not a fully automatic mechanism. it requires asciilifeform's hands , applied on fairly regular basis, to function correctly. sorta like phf's logtron, for instance.
mircea_popescu: yet somehow ~there~ you see why this is not much of a concern.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if 'who leak to, goats?' then why spend even a penny on effort to pass around srcballs 'in confidence' ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you not see a diff b/w bins that were built under your control, and those where not ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: because it is a wholly unnecessary point of weakness.
trinque: meanwhile there may be place for a solution better than "go use satan's gcc / gentoo livecd / etc to bootstrap
trinque: you use bins currently, whenever bootstrapping a compiler
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: releasing binaries does not create this guarantee. even static elf, when put on a box where linus et al (or his successor) see it fit to subtly change the abi, will bomb, and not necessarily immediately. and i'ma still 'be idiot' ☟︎
asciilifeform: for all i know, somewhere there exists a d00d who tried to build e.g. trb on a vax. and thinks asciilifeform is idjit, because it dun go. how's that skin off my back.
mircea_popescu: situation 2, as contemplated : you release a binary, which mp like an idiot runs, and that's that. the machine no longer has cause to think alf's an idiot.
mircea_popescu: dude. situation 1, as currently : you release code, mp like an idiot compiles it on ubuntu, jnow your code exists as a drepper mockery of itself. as far as the machine can tell, you asciilifeform are an idiot.
asciilifeform: what is gained from having there exist a drepperized systemd thing ? or what am i missing
mircea_popescu: so then ? is this not a gain ?
mircea_popescu: but i mean... lookit, the author will make a static binary ; and who the fuck is going to make a drepper systemd thing ?
a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: 3. very clearly quashes the idiocy of rms-ism AND ers-ism ("open source" bla bla), and makes the strong political statement that indeed there is a difference between nose breathers and mouthbreathers and so on.
asciilifeform: crypto is a thing; secrecy has a place, like lubrication oil; but you wouldn't build engine that relies on being soaked in oil at all times, errywhere, steering wheel , pedals and seats included
asciilifeform: relatively compact -- and, more importantly -- short-lived -- seekrits -- are practical. e.g. i send BingoBoingo a qntra item, gpggrammed so as not to get scooped by heathens. next hour it gets published openly.
asciilifeform: i'm struggling and failing to come up with a scenario where it doesn't ultimately land you in the same hot pot of ridiculous boiling oil as usg boils in.
mircea_popescu: like i dunno, don't up all idiots so they shiot the log. thart's not a confidence ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is possible to have confidence with individual people , but imho a mistake to operate on same model with group.
asciilifeform: the illusion that something given to, e.g., 7 people, is reliably in confidence . the next kako or whoever, releases the seekrit at a time of his choosing, for maximum damage, and you get to run around making faces like usg
diana_coman: asciilifeform, as I understand it, this is first and foremost a political statement; the gains are not from "oooh, you don't know my ugly code"
asciilifeform: '3 can keep a seekrit if 2 are dead'(tm)(r)
asciilifeform: illusions have a cost.
mircea_popescu: that you're dealing with a human.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sure . but what does it then mean to ask someone to keep a secret, if even verifying the keeping of the promise is impossible ( much less 'enforce' ) ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a) there's no practical possibilty for collective answerable ; b) as discussed in previous thread (when you were trying to make up contest rules), it's not possible to prove the owner himself didn't leak.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the cost -- 'opposability' -- mircea_popescu gives me a magic proggy, nao i have to guard it and be answerable for loss
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, there is of course the fact that l1 is neither for life nor perhaps yet all that difficult to get in and out - I don't know whether this is a l1 matter or a s.mg board matter ☟︎
asciilifeform: phf: the pov that programmingism is a kind of tard reservation ~specifically because~ of the ease of reusing ancient src, is imho defensible.
asciilifeform: phf: in my particular case, phuctor backend is unpublished specifically because i do not want to encourage people to build on top of it. when i am killed, i'd hope that if folx still feel a desire for a phuctor they will take what asciilifeform ~publicly~ wrote on subj, and make a superior one, rather than trying to maintain the old ball of hack.
phf: well, it's kind of at the core of tmsr, that king lear starts with a folly
asciilifeform: phf: observe that using mechanisms created by dead people is ~very~ expensive, and seldom worth it. and they do not magically return to life by virtue of other folx having a raw copy of sores.
phf: mircea_popescu: that was a markov chain comment, that came out of "we already have proprietary code"
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla got hit by a bus, it hurt ~nothing.
asciilifeform: phf: phuctor was stolen, wholesale, complete with iron it ran on, no fewer than twice. usg still dun have , afaik, a working clone.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, ah, that helps actually - I think I'm getting a better idea of what you're aiming at
phf: asciilifeform: a side point is that we have existing proprietary proggies, that are right now extreme cases of "bus factor". deedbot, phuctor, etc.
mircea_popescu: "mp is a poopyhead" i guess.
diana_coman: a decent claim to being original author of that code or to what?
asciilifeform: i guess the part i dun grasp, is what exactly mircea_popescu would wish to accomplish by making a proprietary proggy & distributing src to anointed folx
mircea_popescu: it means the author has a decent claim to stand on.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, suppose for a minute that someone not in l1 etc comes with a reasonably-close copy of one of those secret-code clients; does that mean l1 leaked or what?
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated Mocky 3 at 2018/05/21 06:31:29 << Mocky Habeeb. Wrote a book on Amazon DB ; works for infraWise (which is pretty lulzy, but don't hold it against him).
asciilifeform: diana_coman: it isn't impossible to keep a seekrit, but proposition re doing so to a proggy that has to run on colo'd boxen ( in many cases outside of festung pizarro, even ) is dubious imho
mircea_popescu: i don't specifically know whether this would work well for systems work. but we're starting this discussion with a ~client~. 99% of people WANT the binary in thew first place.
asciilifeform: let's momentarily suppose this were a good idea. how wouldja arrange, say, trinque's packages repo, to work for members only ?
mircea_popescu: the evident disadvantage is that this only works if we can rely on l1 to keep a secret ; which means things (such as, that it can't be as big, for instance). ☟︎
mircea_popescu: 3. very clearly quashes the idiocy of rms-ism AND ers-ism ("open source" bla bla), and makes the strong political statement that indeed there is a difference between nose breathers and mouthbreathers and so on. ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 14:07 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834842 << ave1's builder doesn't seem to produce a ldd .
mircea_popescu: as we're contemplating an eulora client rewrite, i am contemplating the following code release paradigm : client author a) releases code encrypted to l1, signed and deeded (so basically, gpg -aer asciilifeform -r ave1 -r etc) ; b) releases precompiled binaries for allcomers. ☟︎☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: autoconf is a massive pile of shit.
mircea_popescu: a damn, no ldd at all on zpf ? this is impressive.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, it's not even that, it's not a location thing apparently
mircea_popescu: diana_coman yes, me above lol. "is there a libgl ? yes. is it located somewhere ? no."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was building a client for it.
asciilifeform: btw mircea_popescu , even if one were to build ldd on cuntoo, the only thing it'll ever output on locally-build bins is 'not a dynamic executable' .
a111: Logged on 2015-04-06 08:34 mircea_popescu: "In this article I am going to show you how to create an executable that runs arbitrary code if it's examined by `ldd`. I have also written a social engineering scenario on how you can get your sysadmin to unknowingly hand you his privileges."
asciilifeform: ( it doesn't come with gcc, it's a drepperism )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834842 << ave1's builder doesn't seem to produce a ldd . ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-15 15:42 mircea_popescu: if anyone has serious issues with this better get a portage candidate up asap so it can be imported when cuntoo comes, because otherwise it's as dead as the woodchipped people.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-15 16:22 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834764 << trinque do you have a list of items you observed to be broken under musl ? or is this still in the works
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834795 << nah, no list yet. I've yet to successfully build a lisp, but alpine has sbcl, so I don't wager it's impossible. ☝︎
BingoBoingo: Unlike the attempt at a maritime adventure, this effort has time on its side
BingoBoingo: Cooking steaks for the Peruana to celebrate the end of nationality as a thing
BingoBoingo: <trinque> some of this work won't have to be done completely ab initio; there are musltronic distros out there that can at least act as source material for research, alpine and void linux for example. <<As far as I can tell Alpine is a musl build of gentoo, comparatively clean. Void on the other hand is more like a tampon. Bloody inside and out
asciilifeform: in other heathen wtf's, https://archive.is/Ovauh >> 'Covert radio communications: a viable tactic for international terrorists?'
mircea_popescu: doesn't it amstan , you dirty little whore daughter of a stupid mother.
mircea_popescu: also imported by reference, all the "oh, we're moving to webkit, it's so great and good and btw folks, totally A TECHNICAL DECISION OK!!!" then google drops webkit moves on to their in-house shitpile, oprea "dev" team is like... o yeah totally!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iirc that's the last one where it can even be claimed to be a thing, afterwards moved to being skin on chrome.
asciilifeform: so yes you could run it. tho on x86/amd64 strictly, naturally, afaik there was never a build for arm etc
mircea_popescu: i've conducted a review of extant browsers ; outside of opera ~none work worth a shit ; and in the lulziest of manners, eg, firefox 45 crashes about 4.5 times more frequently than firefox 10. and so on.