log☇︎
28000+ entries in 0.018s
mp_en_viaje: oh! and besides that time when "journalists translate spanish", that lulzy time (also in 2012) when "smart kids" did the boo boo on windows only, cuz "how will mp ever notice". lawd this was a fun spelunking session.
mp_en_viaje: (clean rooms "clean themselves" because air is maintained at positive pressure inside, so whatever particles aren't sucked into the filters get spilled out the doors etc. the whole trick is to not get them TOO dirty in the first place, which "too" starts at ppb [parts-per-billion] in some cases, hence all the funny shoe covers etc)
mp_en_viaje: in a sense, this is the marketable strength of the whole approach, "you know what the difference is between your rural summer kitchen and my clean room operation ? this latter thing cleans itself kekekekex!!!"
mp_en_viaje: hence my comment, "never seen this done" etc.
spyked: mp_en_viaje, agreed re. server pre/post-processing split. prolly can be done in php too, but manually, or otherwise with significant work from author
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile, in rotaku interest items from the glorious days of 2012, http://trilema.com/2012/socialistii-cei-tristi/
mp_en_viaje: rather than "just some dumb shit oversmart grad students use to fuck themselves with". ☟︎
mp_en_viaje: and the obvious answer is "because they are SO FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT, it's worth one's time". which is obvious to the familiar mind, but probably a significant bar towards getting a php-er to think lisp may be interesting.
mp_en_viaje: anyway, the obvious question (from the php-mind) re the split would be "why", buttressed by the observation that "if you're gonna do any page processing at all, you wanna start after all the symbols you can possibly want to use have resolved. this is why php ~starts~ work on a pile of code AFTER things such as "calling user ip" is a known quantity : so you don't end up with two phases, one of which being stuck with undefined symbols the 2nd will
spyked: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/goXZ4/?raw=true <-- macroexpanded "hello world" example of cl-who. the second coad is what's executed when generating page; the first is what I have to write. the second indeed looks like salad to untrained eye, but otherwise maps 100% to cl-who constructs
spyked: i think it's safer to say that cl-who is a compiler from a particular set of s-expr into html. and looking at my (yet-again convoluted!) explanation, I can now distinctly remember that most debugging issues I've had were caused by not understanding the language.
mp_en_viaje: so basically you split the www server processing into two phases, pre-processing and post-processing (time0 being the client call)
spyked: mp_en_viaje, I'm confusing some things in my explanation, namely html (as outputted by that coad) and the S-expr-html representation in cl-who. the two are separate, and this meta-embedded is done with the latter and is used to separate code macro-processed by cl-who from code that executes when the page is generated.
mp_en_viaje: did that kiss of death of a pompous piece of shit ever come up with something ? forget about "coinlab not launching any product". has graham's derpy scam launched anything in the 5 or so years since anyone even looked to laugh at them ?
mp_en_viaje: i think the problem here is mostly that i have nfi what i'm talking about.
spyked: mp_en_viaje, the lisp-in-html-in-lisp... occurs at macroexpansion time. the result is Lisp code that takes input and outputs html. human operator's main job is to distinguish which part of the template is html, and which does mechanical work (e.g. taking rows from a db and putting them into page)
mp_en_viaje: anyway, re deep you should see the latest lines in budapest. the escalators give out dizzyspells.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, yeah, paris metro is pretty cool. sadly the city around it fell apart, but what can you do.
mp_en_viaje: maybe i misunderstand what you're saying ; but imo php and perl have little functionally to do with each other, people identify them through their disdain, and by "people" i mean people whose locus is bash. the people whose locus is excel/virtual basic or w/e don't.
mp_en_viaje: spyked, i don' t think i've ever seen php that generates html that is interpreted as php that spits out html.
a111: Logged on 2019-07-05 18:10 mp_en_viaje: spyked, http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/095-cl-who-ii.html#selection-207.23-207.57 << is this even a good idea ? why would you want to interleave lisp and html ? how the fuck is anyone gonna debug the salad ?
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-05#1921771 <-- it's how html templating/pre-processing usually works, you embed one language into the other. php is perl (or whatever) interleaved with html; cl-who is very similar, only without the leaky abstractions, i.e. html trees are represented as s-exprs and can be correctly manipulated as such ☝︎
diana_coman: the striking difference re bucharest esp was simply that tube in Bucharest is /was clearly made for medium-long distance, a "cross the gridlocked centre" sort of thing while the one in Paris was to a large extent for short distance (or at least most lines i.e. there are some, fewer "express" lines)
diana_coman: I think it was one X with some concentric circles + north-south and east-west lines but I never really studies the map in a lot of detail
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-05#1921843 -> in my experience Paris was closest to this i.e. wherever one was, walking < 5 minutes gets one to a tube station ☝︎
asciilifeform: re chinese, i've not had the pleasure to ride their trains or even see up close, so cannot add.
asciilifeform went into the tram yard in timis, they left it open..
asciilifeform: tram, typically, goes in loop at depot
mp_en_viaje: possibly by looking at chinese plans for future development too much
mp_en_viaje: i dunno tbh how i got this idea in my head.
asciilifeform: iirc mp_en_viaje saw the nyc sub with own eyes
asciilifeform: complete with semaphore (when used ? nfi, since time immemorial was automatic)
asciilifeform: that same type of switch, at ~2~ ends , in each stop
asciilifeform: and yea that's exactly how dc metro is
asciilifeform: hmm, dun display, trips the mpwp spamload killer
asciilifeform never been to buda-
asciilifeform: grr gotta go an' see sunlight soon, will go mad at terminal
asciilifeform: resembled, i think, chicago
mp_en_viaje: i thought "holy shit, this is the most antique insane thing leftover"
mp_en_viaje: i thought that;'s so fucking nutty, i even photographed it in budapest
asciilifeform: straight, dual track.
asciilifeform: here they have a depot on ea. end of ea. line.
mp_en_viaje: but i mean they just loop, neh ? doesn't actually switch at end of line, just loops around
asciilifeform: but no, they switch and switch sides, all day, and is where train usually gets stuck when gets stuck
asciilifeform: would've thought -- 'no brainer'
asciilifeform: i cannot say why they did not build the (youngest, i think, in world) wash. metro -- 1972 iirc -- with 100% bidir. platforms
mp_en_viaje: i dunno i ever noticed line switching. that's... kinda dumb neh ?
asciilifeform: they do not of course physically cross even here. but the trains do have to switch sides, i dun know of any subway anywhere where ~all~ stations have bidirectional platform
mp_en_viaje: nowere do the lines ACTUALLY cross. warsaw blue line is under red line. minsk red under blue. etc. you wanna interconnect, get off use escalator.
asciilifeform: it's where the sad amerimetro always breaks down -- in the switches
mp_en_viaje: china builds. THREE GRIDS.
asciilifeform: possibly not even, but that crossings are a failure point
asciilifeform: dunno if even in tokyo -- grid
asciilifeform: aha, worx by 'let'em move to where the station is'
mp_en_viaje: i'm not even persuaded it's a bad idea. if you only have dough for that track length, making a cross possibly optimal load. and if not constrained by historical idiocy, like budapest with its 1898 lines look like they were dug by moles, might as well just make a proper grid, #
asciilifeform: ( they in fact do. but not 'because rich', but rather because will sooner forgo food than to forgo to 'feed' truck, without it is as without legs )
mp_en_viaje: in other lulz : most slavorc towns have metro systems consisting of a big X on the map
asciilifeform: pretty common cockroach in head of 'vhs' orcs incidentally -- 'in usa errybody's rich, see, even elderly widows own trucks'
mp_en_viaje: cuz yeah, totally, yurp and america, similar road / mass transit networks.
mp_en_viaje: (there's different place where i explain that romanian "business owner" ie rotto in culo making 5k/year hussing the street has no business owning car. THEREFORE I CONTRADICT SELF!!!
asciilifeform: i'ma guess that these come from same fountain of liquishit as the 'hotel' in oslo -- i.e. clients unequipped to distinguish the sham from real deal
mp_en_viaje: amusing rotard hanger-on was just complaining about it, as it happens, "because he has detected my hypocrisy", or however it works in their brains
asciilifeform: cannot nao find in O(1) this piece, but iirc had 'picture if you called undertaker, and he replied that he's waiting for a tram with enuff room to bring the coffin'
asciilifeform: re 'bottom inflection points' -- iirc mp_en_viaje also described existence of whores in south amer who 'make house call' but haven't own transport
mp_en_viaje: did not particularly feel like slumming it tonite.
asciilifeform: this is prolly where asciilifeform ought to honestly admit, that he dun even have the equiv. of 'three grades of church school education' in this subj : in fact had never been to a bordello at all. so the last thing alive vs subj expert.
mp_en_viaje: not even sport, not like i fucked anyone. was for blogging, you know, to draw a map gotta draw the limits. just like math analysis, go for the remarkable points of inflection etc.
asciilifeform: iirc mp_en_viaje did one time write a portrait of a sad bordello he went into, (in cr?), where chix on flea mattresses behind curtains. but presumably this -- was for sport
mp_en_viaje: as someone having run such, i know what to look for.
asciilifeform: a++ heuristic then, makes sense
mp_en_viaje: some things sell the steak, some things sell the sizzle. hotels, bars, whorehouses, etc -- these sell the sizzle, there's no steak there.
asciilifeform: is logic here that if it were a quality bordello, neon would be rounding error in operating cost ? and therefore 'wrong gate'
mp_en_viaje: i WILL however ditch "luxury boutique hotel" across the way from construction yard.
mp_en_viaje: but to stay at all one must first go in.
mp_en_viaje: would have ~gone in~ if saw gate worth going through. stayed, not necessarily.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, because whoring is not an industry ? the girls don't make axles in there, you realise, it's not cnc milling
mp_en_viaje: unless they make their dough at the gas station, i guess.
asciilifeform finds that 'flashy' is ~inversely~ proportional to functionality in erry industry he personally touched. why ought whoring to be exception ?
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, except mp_en_viaje came by car, left by car the next minute. gotta make mp get out of car yes ?
mp_en_viaje: by their websites you'd think they rebuilt glory days las vegas ; but when you get there it looks more like some over-excited 11th graders got a hold of a dad's computer.
asciilifeform: why invest in 40 metre neons and megalith if mp_en_viaje will just as happily come to properly equipped garage, maybe is the logic
mp_en_viaje: the casinos, those are monumental and marquee up in lights the side of the building. but apparently whorehouses occur in someone's garage.
mp_en_viaje: so we opt out, go for 2nd best. it is a... well i dunno, basically looked like a bus stop in the distance.
mp_en_viaje: ate (very nice food, "friendship" pectopan in friendship park, a++ beerhouse, great soup great snitzel etc) ; then went for the "moulin rouge", top best cathouse-cunnyshack. driver takes us to a... well... i dunno, construction yard ? narrow dark alley betwen a concrete wall and some metal panes delimiting an earthy ditch.
mp_en_viaje: in other news, i spent the weirdest friday night out in memory
asciilifeform: will admit, even as a boy was thoroughly puzzled, 'for what do they need us in usa, why invited?'
a111: Logged on 2017-06-08 15:10 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can't comment on ro emigres, but with su world there was a lulzy twist : 1st wave (1970s -- largely j000z!11) wrote home, 'i'ma full professor and it rocks, come on over', 2nd wave went, to discover that market -- glut, and hello cab
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: imho a++ theory. and ties in with the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-08#1667175 item also. ☝︎
asciilifeform: ^ d00d was famous for, among other things, having admitted that he ate for some length of time the cat food, and had nfi what it was, aside from 'it's delish'
mp_en_viaje: that's the best theory i got.
asciilifeform: or the e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-30#1920707 derps ☝︎
asciilifeform: aaa so like the hollywood chix.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, as near as i can tell plan was never to "use" in any meaningful sense, certainly not anything beyond "these are '''winners'''' of tournament market, aspire, aspire, aspire!"
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/07/british-navy-returns-to-piracy-with-seizure-of-iranian-oil-tanker-iran-points-out-their-obligation-to-retaliate-in-kind/ << Qntra -- British Navy Returns To Piracy With Seizure Of Iranian Oil Tanker, Iran Points Out Their Obligation To Retaliate In Kind
asciilifeform: even when sovok croaked, i dun recall any 'emigre dissidents' being sent back into the crater to help usgificate, rather was done by entirely other folx + locally grown axe handles
asciilifeform: i have nfi how to even calculate 'worked'. at 1 time, during reign of kennedy, plan was to draft'em into an invasion army. this was done, it was turned into mincemeat, and afaik there was never any 'plan' since
mp_en_viaje: and look how well that worked, too!
asciilifeform: iirc they started with the cubans
mp_en_viaje: whatever, if all the morons that actually want to live in the us gather in washington to populate usg zoos, the world will be better,
asciilifeform: large zoo. e.g. 1 time i saw coupla 100 persia-flavoured 'activists' with pickets in front of wh, 'we demand bombing of teheran nao' etc