log☇︎
264600+ entries in 0.176s
a111: Logged on 2016-08-30 13:53 mircea_popescu: ah trinque was also on lisp huh. there is that.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-30#1531833 << there are two orthogonal items here. one is the sanity of the language, which begets the brevity Framedragger observed in my code. the second is whether the implementation of that language has been *used* widely enough to expose it to the great filter. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: ah, man, that cold slow fire.
asciilifeform: the flip side is that you have literally seconds to make the decision re what do do about the fire.
mircea_popescu: also because oxygen has to be imported, so to speak, it's very efficient firefighting. how long can it burn ? well, while air lasts.
asciilifeform: and they all ended with 'if all other hope is lost, close compartment'
asciilifeform: there were instructions for various scenarios of fire, perma-affixed to the walls, consoles, etc. in various spots around the ship.
asciilifeform: fire is a greater fear than leak, today just as in 1700.
mircea_popescu: "we close the door on it." "AA would sink again!"
asciilifeform: (compartments, naturally, existed, as they still do on any war ship)
mircea_popescu: it's not a thoroughly unreasonable way to go about it, "what if we spring a leak ?"
mircea_popescu: iirc they were pretty big on the whole compartimentalization thing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when i toured a ww2 submarine museum-ship, i learned that on board there were steel plates, with matching holes, to bolt to the hatchways when doing a planned dive, in case the hatches leak. somehow i find it hard to picture modern american sailors doing any such thing. osha would have a fit.
mod6: i sure as hell didn't wanna have to go back there though for lack of a "good sample".
mircea_popescu: "phlebotomist kit is this here submarine hatch. problem ?"
mircea_popescu: lol mod6 been in teh marines
mod6: SQUEEZE THAT THING LADY
mod6: so, then she gave me 20% more.
mod6: i was like, "don't be afraid to squeeze that thing hard."
mod6: asciilifeform: i dunno. she gingerly tried to bleed me.
mod6: but hard to take such a person srsly.
mod6: anyway, she seemed at least smart enough to take the sample and perscibe some antibiotics.
asciilifeform: usually a flunkie does this
mod6: needless to say, I had to fetch it for her.
mod6: she took this blood sample from a "spider bite" of some sort on my hip, dropped it on the floor.
mod6: the dr i went to see the other day had to be 350 lbs.
asciilifeform: if only to visit.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-30 15:24 mircea_popescu: "i am an engineer" "good for you" "but i'm poor" "then you aren't an engineer ?" "no, i am, it's just... the environment i come from doesn't allow for engineers. this world is so unfair!" "so then... by coming from an environment that doesn't allow for an engineer, you...aren't one ?" "NO SEE, ENVIOUS RAGE! OTHER PEOPLE ARE IN HEAVEN AND I AM IN HELL!!"
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-30#1531916 << to briefly revisit subj, i would happily buy a ticket to visit the planet where there are actual engineers, doctors, etc. ☝︎
asciilifeform: hm. port, then.
mircea_popescu: why ? i'm not that great a fan of the sea.
asciilifeform: well for that matter i have trouble picturing a mircea_popescu circa 1700 anywhere other than on proper pirate ~ship~
mod6: lot of trades
asciilifeform: who wouldn't want to live in pirate port, lol
mircea_popescu: it lasted more than london lasted, on average.
asciilifeform: while the fun lasted - yes.
mircea_popescu: nah, they had ports throughout - the indian ocean for the portuguese ; the atlantic for the english.
asciilifeform: (e.g., actual pirates, had considerable problem recruiting and keeping medic. to the point that it became sop to capture one and let him go immediately when replacement is found.)
mircea_popescu: lawbreaker (unrepentant) at least provides personal history to back up his independence claim.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as ridiculous as it sounds, it's true. the world's upside down, i will not trust an "honest man" because, simply put, http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160830/from:256/to:256#256
mircea_popescu: "oh but if i had a better car then definitely gf", sayz elliot. and i'm sure he's right hurr.
mircea_popescu: the real deals walk the same information superhighway as everyone else.
mircea_popescu: heh. wait till you get into the "i'm an webentrepreneurdesignmarketing" like pim kim what's her face.
asciilifeform: dunno that industrial 'civilization' contains much else besides whores and their patrons.
mircea_popescu: some whores who knew they were whores, and some whores who wasted their life pretending they aren't whores.
mircea_popescu: tell you what, contrary to what russian speakers thought, soviet union contained no engineers, no teachers, naught else. just whores.
mircea_popescu: "i am an engineer" "good for you" "but i'm poor" "then you aren't an engineer ?" "no, i am, it's just... the environment i come from doesn't allow for engineers. this world is so unfair!" "so then... by coming from an environment that doesn't allow for an engineer, you...aren't one ?" "NO SEE, ENVIOUS RAGE! OTHER PEOPLE ARE IN HEAVEN AND I AM IN HELL!!" ☟︎
asciilifeform: easier said, than done
asciilifeform: engineer should be also a capitalist, ought to build ships for his own use instead of some jew's ?
mircea_popescu: well, there's also no rush.
asciilifeform: i may be thick, but i do not see how this can be applied by engineer.
mircea_popescu: the experience is, of course, massively beneficial. moreover, it's also the only way.
mircea_popescu: history of china throughout the 1900s is exactly this : came out of ghetto, of own volition, and offered self.
mircea_popescu: let's read together from http://trilema.com/2016/mochila-o-muerte/ : "many of the most beautiful Jewesses – adults and adolescents, some already naked and others in various states of undress – came out of the ghetto ~on their own volition~ and ~~~offered themselves~~~."
mircea_popescu: no, more in the sense of "now they'll either wear suits or come up with complicated arguments as to why they aren't, because either way they very deeply care".
asciilifeform: conquest in the 'now they'll work all day for half a bowl of rice and an opium cig' sense ?
asciilifeform: which, then
mircea_popescu: conquer china wasn't that.
asciilifeform: conquest in the old 'rape'n'pillage' sense may be good clean fun, but no longer economically +ev.
mircea_popescu: they are not cancellable at all ; not even in the same way plants are cancellable.
asciilifeform: they are cancellable in the same way surface deposits of copper were cancelled.
mircea_popescu: nobody cancelled the wealth curve either, nor the ships and conquer china.
asciilifeform: gcd still works because - fortunately - nobody cancelled, yet, the integers.
asciilifeform: so why does it surprise mircea_popescu if folks won't follow a heuristic that was devised in a world which no longer exists ..?
mircea_popescu: which is why the guy gives the girl money in http://trilema.com/2014/the-romanian-language-for-other-people/ but he doesn't pay cristiana in http://trilema.com/2016/il-magnifico-cornuto/
asciilifeform: and modern 'rich people' are, largely, dressed-up counterfeiters and their chums.
asciilifeform: i.e. modern usd is not the pound sterling of 1700.
asciilifeform: the setting has 0 connection to the people who came up with it also.
mircea_popescu: this model is built on some axioms. one of which is "dumb people". not smart people. the moment you turn around and try to apply it to engineers you plainly demonstrate you have absolutely no connection to the people who come up with this, but merely cargo cultist, following motions.
mircea_popescu: and hence all the "morals" debate of 1600s and 1700s.
mircea_popescu: this is the whole premise of capitalism : dear retard, don;'t listen to what the priest says to do ; but listen to what the rich guy says to do.
mircea_popescu: now then. giving intelligent people a tool to break idiots from the social fold (ie, money) results in all sorts of minimums off the wealth-curve (very much like the schroedinger equation, this) being cut off, resulting in more money, resulting in more ships, resulting in conquering china.
mircea_popescu: find a much better blueprint in circumscribed circumstances than the heuristic would provide (the circumstance has to always be limited because otherwise complexity explosion - which yields the principal problem of capitalism, ie disintergration (as the term of art)).
mircea_popescu: the whole capitalism / industrialism model works on the following principle : idiots (by which we mean virtually everyone) are overwhelmed by the complexity of reality, and so resort to societal heuristics. such as you know, "religion", or else "all girls" agreeing that sucking cock is gross in 9th grade and that only farmhands and mongoloids wouldn't do it in 12th grade. these heuristics are weak, and an intelligent guy can
mircea_popescu: it only exists because of jwz training of smart kids, making them want to "cleave" brains and responsibility.
mircea_popescu: but this "wage working engineer" makes 0 sense.
mircea_popescu: look, it's not my fault that a) they misapplied the model and b) you bought into it.
asciilifeform: yeah yeah on mircea_popescu's planet they dun have this, all smart folks sit in recliners and get hand-fed grapes by harembots while idiots labour
mircea_popescu: wage worker grandmaster ? what's this, like engineering ?
mircea_popescu: this of course comes with a corresponding responsibility of smart people to not be fucking retards, but hey.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i wouldn't trust his decision. that's the point : under 110 or so, you are well advised to not even think about making these sorts of calls.
asciilifeform: and to not do it at all.
asciilifeform: the main problem with him is that he is not free to decide that the ~job per se~ is braindamaged
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron does sister of friend want to see buenos aires ?
asciilifeform: incidentally the traditional interpretation -- 'wage slave will exam-optimize and do the bare minimal job' is imho woefully incomplete:
mircea_popescu: there's two married exponentials at work here, and the 2nd's even more abrupt.
asciilifeform: saying originally referred to the comparatively laughable output of wage slaves, vs folk who do ~same thing out of actual interest
mircea_popescu: that's the other problem there. motivation of random retard - from fear, firecracker, from interest, nuke. when you go above 95 on the iq scale, what the everloving fuck are you going to put in your firecracker even.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck am i going to be afraid of.
asciilifeform: 'motivation from fear is a firecracker, from interest - a nuke' as the americans used to say ☟︎
mircea_popescu: and if we count those hours at the 100k estimate, tmsr did more for increasing worldwide productivity than feminism.
mircea_popescu: in contrast, for the past SIX FUCKING YEARS i've been pulling 100 hour weeks like nobody's business.
mircea_popescu: i dun think it ever took me more than a few days to pay for a month of costa rica or whatever, and this if i was particularly persuaded by the "don't eat from capitals" balabusta angle that month.
asciilifeform: same reason, really, why slave labourer in birkenau would fuck off at the conveyor whenever he could.
mircea_popescu: i have just about 0 interest in working for any of the various cans of usg soup. pre tmsr, i actually didn't work much if at all, and in retrospect i understand it's for this exact reason.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i see it pretty much the same way.
thestringpuller: depends on if he's a nuclear physicist pretending to be a plumber or vice versa.
asciilifeform: would you pay a man to build reactor if his toilet ~never works ?
asciilifeform: i'd recommend to him to first solve his house and food problems.
danielpbarron: gabriel should make his case to get listed on mpex