log☇︎
260200+ entries in 0.169s
asciilifeform: (fella built 1,001 types.)
mircea_popescu: they are not in my wot ; i will ignore them happily.
mircea_popescu: and a kg of duralumin hull will cut a hole through a pile of plastic choppers.
asciilifeform: and this is , unlike much of the other matter, not a theoretical question, folks have sweated over 'what is the smallest aluminum chopper that can fly' , read them, not me.
asciilifeform: (even the fabled glock, cracks. but at least not right away. might want to look into what glock frame was made from.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fatigue is not the issue. behaviour under shock wave is the issue.
mircea_popescu: whatever vynil toy store uses has what, 60 ? if you're lucky and it's very good, pvc has like 15
asciilifeform: try it on paper. take the useful payload lift of the toy engines, and subtract the mass of the aluminum airframe from it.
asciilifeform: they don't scale down from that size.
mircea_popescu: modellists suffer from mental disabilities, too.
asciilifeform: once in a while you hear of a fella who got carried away at the controls, lost his head.
asciilifeform: modellists build aluminum choppers, they are motorbike-sized.
mircea_popescu: yeah, but plastic is heavier than duralumin per strength.
asciilifeform: know why these are not in the toystore ?
mircea_popescu: but really - using plastic for a serious (as opposed to toy) chopper is stupid, you want duralumin anyway
asciilifeform: the latter is typically made of soft, light stuff.
mircea_popescu: also the chopper not being a plane, it can tolerate a lot more than the warthog could.
asciilifeform: that's the other thing - impedance mismatch between weapon and airframe.
mircea_popescu: however, the constraints are material durability and relative density, because the main factor is atmospheric response.
mircea_popescu: so like two degrees of magnitude off
mircea_popescu: meanwhile the scheme contemplated here expells 100 grams of material per second, and weighs 3kgs.
mircea_popescu: seems the cannon fires 400gram projectiles, about 70/s. so it expells 30kgs of material per second ; and it weighs 150 tons. ☟︎
asciilifeform: which is to say: you ~could~. exactly ~once~.
asciilifeform: firing, e.g., luger, from a toy chopper, is roughly similar to the notion of firing 'big bertha' from a 'warthog'.
mircea_popescu: trying to.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: roughly arithmetize the mass of the bullet / mass of the aircraft , in each case.
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 30mm GAU-8/A Ammunition - Orbital ATK: <https://www.orbitalatk.com/defense-systems/armament-systems/30mm/docs/GAU-8A_Fact_Sheet.pdf>; PGU -46/ B HEI - Orbital ATK: <https://www.orbitalatk.com/defense-systems/armament-systems/30mm/docs/PGU-46B_Fact_Sheet.pdf>; GAU-8 Avenger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger>
shinohai will release an army of these in neighborhood: http://archive.is/Sd1Yh
mircea_popescu: note the GAU-8 fires 30x173 at 1km/s
mircea_popescu: hey, warthog does manage to fire those "girl you'd fuck" sized bullets...
asciilifeform: who recalls the a10 gunship.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this was, believe or not, a problem even for large plane.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well you are the one pointing the shot.
mircea_popescu: not to say that gyrojet is out or anything.
PeterL: gyroget: cool futuristic weapon that does not actually perform as well as classic rifle. Would have been useful if instead of firing bullet-sized thing would fire slightly larger grenade type thing.
mircea_popescu: big whoop, over ten seconds friction + your engines reduce it to .5
mircea_popescu: anyway. 38 shot is about 300 W at barrel exit. for a 3kg shooter this translates to say 10 m/s
asciilifeform: this way you avoid eating the blunt end of newton's 3rd law.
BingoBoingo: PeterL: No, the reverse. Thing should be called Flutterby, but retards insist on calling it butterfly
asciilifeform: very simple to manufacture, also.
asciilifeform: ... before we lose this thread, i will point out that the correct projectile weapon for a toy flyer is 'gyrojet' rocket.
asciilifeform: whack it with a table tennis paddle.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: buy a toy and try it.
asciilifeform: it has to be immediate.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 14:02 mircea_popescu: incidentally, how the fuck did the "butterfly" misspelling of a flutterby catch on ?
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-12#1539987 << obvious to any schoolchild - insect has ~0 to do with butter, but clearly you can see it flutter as it goes by, therefore many kids have separately come up with genius transform to flutterby ☝︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you cannot compensate for dynamic instability (roll, spin) 'over time'
asciilifeform: sorta same reason why 'virtual glove' never is able to simulate banging your fist on a hard table, it always ends up being a 'gellatin' table.
mircea_popescu: you compensate for it over time.
asciilifeform: the motors are too small to adequately compensate for the 'jerk'.
asciilifeform: buy toystore chopper and then kick it in flight
mircea_popescu: and coupled with gossipd, it becomes impossible to establish "whose chopper this is". owner reports his choppers stolen, good luck "enforcing".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the small chopper that fires so much as a 'bb' accurately and stays upright is afaik yet unsolved problem.
mircea_popescu: chopper should also be able to fire a 38 yes.
asciilifeform: it is common enough problem in towns with 'traffic camera.'
asciilifeform: in usa there are even aficionados who shoot'em out
mircea_popescu: the expense of servicing cameras is getting crew to mount pole etc. not the parts. the parts are all cheap - great satan just prints to cover.
asciilifeform: (ordinary vandals live in every town and lenses unscrew)
asciilifeform: melt the ccd.
asciilifeform: lens is too cheap.
asciilifeform: great with a balanced diet of that 30w laser diode.
mircea_popescu: also, a chopper fleet able to do anon cctv takeout missions is something with a future.
mircea_popescu: no movement there, but yes.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, mircea_popescu : more 'bang for the buck' if parasitically ovipositing on rooftop chimneys, lights, street lamps, similar.
mircea_popescu: yeah BingoBoingo is right, we also had the "add to people's cars, without asking the people, have it powered from heat exchange etc"
BingoBoingo: <Framedragger> unless, you know, you removed the copter! << THermocouple, epoxy, car exhaust!
mircea_popescu: never works too well.
mircea_popescu: eh, the plane-to-glider conversion is a sort of "my car is also a submarine"
asciilifeform: chopper converts to brick (models do not have the inertial mass to autorotate) if power cut.
mircea_popescu: re plane vs chopper : afaik per watt, chopper offers more flight than plane.
mircea_popescu: shinohai i don't think anyone seriously contemplates importing the aferations of random soi dissant sovereigns.
asciilifeform: bottle is rolled by the waves.
asciilifeform: the nifty thing about my (circa 2009) sketch of 'naval gossipd' is that power is cheap
Framedragger: (for the logs - http://www.pi-in-the-sky.com/ - yes this is more of a toy - still)
asciilifeform: (he had - and afaik still has - a 'drop sealed champaigne bottles from airplanes, with messages, track currents' project)
mircea_popescu: but this aside sure, the design space is wide open.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger ideally you want it to empty the balloon and return "home" sometime.
mircea_popescu: anyway. this sketch of a discussion should suffice to show that the enemy has no hope of ever getting a perimeter around the network again.
Framedragger: unless, you know, you removed the copter!
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the copter itself would be most of the mass.
mircea_popescu: also top of balloon makes the perfect surface for solar cells.
mircea_popescu: this is calculable, energy loss to course correction vs energy saved from buoyancy.
asciilifeform: which is why few folks are riding dirigibles today.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if i wanted it to stay put i'd simply add a baloon.
asciilifeform: and other terrorisms.
asciilifeform: we also had a thread some years ago about flying machines draping parasitic inductor-powered relays on power lines, etc.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the beauty of bitcoin is that it actually allows one to permissionlessly serve.
asciilifeform: in fact, the ideal machine would likely be an ornithopter that - unlike any extant ornithopter - rides air currents.
trinque: have the thing circle
trinque: why chopper rather than small plane
Framedragger: asciilifeform: a month >> "stationkeeping time", so there's that. and they can be super cheap. and mass-produced. a HAB army anyone?
asciilifeform: shinohai: the whole point of cheap chopper is to piss on 'restricted'
Framedragger: i think you may be disappoint at the amount of stationkeeping time you can do on quadcopter or w/e, even with a large solar cell which then surely will render a larger radar profile; but maybe i'm mistaken - interesting
asciilifeform: (unless tethered to the ground, and you can recall how well that worked for usg last year)
asciilifeform: all the while blown around by the four winds
Framedragger: there exist very small HABs with basically just a transmitter/repeater and super small solar cell, fwiw
asciilifeform: ergo not a suitable instrument for the bite of 10,000,001 gnats against the back of a dying sovereign.
Framedragger: better than 10 minutes of fly time
asciilifeform: i have wondered what the state-of-the-art in ~stationkeeping~ re quadcopter presently is.
asciilifeform: (recall the saddam gps jammer thread)