248500+ entries in 0.168s
trinque: phf: what's going on with
the
title bar
there? weird rendering artifacts?
trinque: none of
this multiple points of bring your own feelings bullshit
phf: not unless on
top of your multiple layers you start introducing action from distance.
ben_vulpes: i'm less up in arms about
the vpatch
than i am about continuing
to lend credence
to imperial operations like github et al. "dear mcclim donor".
trinque: phf: g_l wants
to rip out all backends but CLX iirc, which sounds like it allows for fixing
that
trinque: I'm irritated he didn't genesis v-patch
the
thing
☟︎ phf: blit operations are your 80% in a
traditional display framework), which usually is a sign of "too many layers"
phf: well, mcclim layers
things in a way
that i
thought was part of
the spec, but
turns out it was beach's decision (to among other
things support multiple different backends). when i was
trying
to optimize
the x11 backend last
time, i was hitting multiple "independent" layers,
that all demanded attention.
there wasn't really an 80/20 solution, which made me conclude
that
there's not a single subtrate
that you can optimize (the way, say,
ben_vulpes: fuck it. do it for
tmsr~
the same way anyone else in
the republic does it: because it's worth doing.
trinque: I guess it's not clear
that I'm proposing *eating* mcclim, hence what I said
to g_l
ben_vulpes: if
the upside in
the empire is 2k with diversity statements and safe spaces and codes of conduct...
trinque: your bare assertion
that
there's some kind of inherent lag in
the redisplay loop does not meet my observations, i.e. right now on my desk
trinque: mkay. so
the simulation part of your program has someting
to do with how fast
the display part runs?
trinque: whatever emotional
tic
this is whereby any mention of departure from
turd island is not nearly far enough (!!1!!1) is no sort of conversation
phf: anyway, i want
to
try and deploy masamune, but i'm also
trying
to spin up clim2
to see if it's maybe less of a dog (i imagine it would be since it was probably battle optimized for all
that ported-from-legacy contractor software)
phf: trinque: i don't
think anyone's
telling you what
to do, but
to honestly consider what you can observe, and compare it
to what we can observe. asciilifeform is saying
that clim is slow for him, i'm saying
that
there's something in clim design
that makes it
tricky
to make it fast. it's a converstion.
trinque: the fuck, I'm supposed
to develop for DOS now?
trinque: if
that proves impossible I'll move just like I did from commonqt
trinque: if clim gets
too slow for any of my use cases I'll find out where and work on it
trinque: I do not make decisions in life about what
to do
today based on somebody else's imagined
tomorrow.
☟︎ phf: asciilifeform: inherent, because of how many layers message needs
to pass
through in order
to do a key-press <-> render roundtrip. accelerator is not going
to help
there
phf: asciilifeform: i can feel delays in x11 emacs after working on a hardware
terminal, which makes me conclude
that "feels" kind of changes once you get used
to it. i can't use popular hipster software for example, because it's definitely slower
trinque: I can
tell you precisely how long redisplay-frame-pane or w/e
takes depending on what's updated
trinque: phf:
there's no suck fucking feels fast
phf: trinque: "dog slow" is a
term of art, and it's inherent in mcclim design, because of how it's layered. "feels fast
to me" is
the worst possible measure of it. asciilifeform is not being particularly precise with his
terminology, but you will run into dog slow once you start
trying out corner cases (long unwrapped lines, fast rapid draws, massive repl outputs)
trinque: this is much better
than
the Qt I used for
this same application before
trinque: release
the system; I'll use
trinque: you're comparing it
to god's own computer
trinque: I'm comparing it
to other
tk
phf: asciilifeform: it's possible
they sped it up since last
time we
tried it
trinque: I know
the latency precisely
trinque: screen's updated with same events
that are fired from user input.
trinque: ttf, just a screen with some gadgets
that update periodically with new data
trinque: And former
Trump campaign adviser Carter Page is alleged
to have visited with
two Russian government officials in a possible effort
to open a diplomatic backchannel with
the Kremlin, according
to U.S. officials. << my god,
talking with russians!
trinque: but like I said, want
to lean on it
to find out, not decided by any means
phf: i'm
trying
to spin up at least one instance of lispworks/allegro clim
to see if it might be faster, but so far it's proving... difficult.
phf: trinque: i'd like
to at least
try it out. i'm unconvinced clim is a good idea, because
there aren't any good implementations. mcclim is
terribly over-engineered (in
the best of java style, with delegates for proxies etc.), clim codebase
that lispworks/allegro share is less so, but more hacky. which makes me wonder if clim spec itself is suspect
☟︎☟︎ trinque: and it'd be nice just
to lean on mcclim real hard and see what breaks
trinque: phf: it's getting interesting right? it's not
the final solution, but it'd be a step up from emacs if it works.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> pro
tip : you can still jumpstart cars
today as in 1916 << Some German "innovashuns" are exceptions. Unless your bar for "jumpstarting" only carries
to
turning motor over
then still
true.
phf: well, if he
thinks
that's a good idea, he might potentially save me a bunch of work :}
trinque: "What's
the matter Mr.
Trump? We already provided you bodyguards!"
☟︎ trinque: the framing of it
there is lulzy
mircea_popescu: (in
the process benefiting him by exposing bugs he dun know about)
jhvh1: phf:
The operation succeeded.
phf: !~later
tell gabriel_laddel have you considered putting ~everything~ masamune into a single
tree, prepatched, so
that instead of "load X,
then load my patch-foo-for-X" you just have everything under single hierarchy exactly
the way you expect it
to run in production?
mircea_popescu: they all live closeby
too, because dun wanna commute until
they get blinkenlichten, and so double kill.
mircea_popescu: ivanka can pick up phones until old man
trump
thinks she had enough, at which point wh gets its first secretary
mircea_popescu: first week, wifey can cook, once she's
tired of it white house gets its first cook.
mircea_popescu: somehow
they elide
the obvious point
that his right move, and his coherent with himself move, is
to simply FIRE EVERYONE and
then hire people as he perceives
the need.
mircea_popescu: note in passing
that one of
the more substantial objections "people in
the know" aka niggers raise
to a
trump presidency is
that "he won't be able
to staff wh, he could barely staff his campaign".
mircea_popescu: as ~everyone with
two neurons
to rub
together has been disabused of
this notion,
the next guy who wants
to change.org might as well point a nuke
to
the white house.
mircea_popescu: people somehow bought into
this "public opinion as an aggregate of
the supposed opinions of irrelevant individual cattle MATTERS!!1", and so we had wikileaks.
trinque: when you can't
trust
those, your problem lies not in engineering...
mircea_popescu: which is not even without merit :
the next wikileaks may not leak words.