239200+ entries in 0.161s
mats: FUCKGOATS is impressive,
thanks asciilifeform
trinque: "don't need" is
the sort of squishy lazy compromise
that'd better have a reason
phf: what i got from
the argument last
time is
that wot ratings don't need
that sort of meticulous bureaucratic audit
trail. my personal inclination is
to of course specify and sign and process (plus it would be cool
to have own fork of wot maintained by own means), but i'm not sure i disagree with
the first point
trinque: danielpbarron: what if I just allow whoever currently is set as "nick"
to rate as "nick"
danielpbarron: the rating guides you
to
the person who you may
they request signed materian
trinque: lets walk it
the other direction
danielpbarron: the ratings are a guide.
the WoT is people. do you
think
this whole chat has been mitm'd for
the last howevermany years and nobody noticed?
trinque: this bottle is also somehow distinct from
the bottle where deedbot is currently lying
to him
danielpbarron: after somebody complains
that it's showing
the wrong
thing
trinque: or for
that matter verify anything I got from assbot or prior
trinque: how do I currently know by looking at my database
that no item in it was altered by somebody spraying bits into my server via network card -> dma
☟︎ trinque: wtf does "official signed
things" mean here
trinque: you'll have
to define your
terms if you want
to proceed
danielpbarron: that's what sigs are for, one-off "maje sure you get
this
text unmolested" ; ~not~ here is a public record of official signed
things
☟︎ trinque: and lets not soften
the definitions of
things because "o no
too hard"
trinque: it says "this was precisely
the state of
this
text at
time"
trinque: your observation is misapplied;
the signature does not say "for all
time"
trinque: which does not invalidate
that at
the
time of signature
they were precisely
the statement I made
trinque: if I go change
them, yes, signed material does not update
danielpbarron: i
thought
this was already done in
the log : suppose i give +5 one day and -10
the next? without
the latter it would appear i
trust
the guy -- WITH SIGNATURE!!!
☟︎ danielpbarron: trinque, so
that
two parties can know
they have
the same
text
trinque: danielpbarron: how do you justify signing anything by
this logic ?
☟︎ danielpbarron: there is no "verifying a rating" beyond asking
the rater yourself
☟︎ danielpbarron: i don't see
the benefit in signing
the rating string; if it gets mitm'd it won't match on
the bot's end and
the user will clearly see something is amiss
trinque: in
the other, we must
trust my server is perfect, our logs are perfect, and so on
trinque: in one case, both parties can verify a rating using
the rating material itself.
danielpbarron: so
then dump your copy of it and sign it periodically
trinque: but at any rate, making
the WoT something
that can be rebuilt from public information when I am dead is a good
thing
☟︎ trinque: I understood it
to be able
to do both attributable and non-attributable statements
danielpbarron: this is counter
the
the gossipd model of "i heard so-and-so said whatever"
trinque: under
the present scheme I could do
the same, but have
to
trust
the wire
to be honest, or find a better wire, which proceeds
towards dragging gossipd in as a dependency
trinque: if ratings were
this kind of material I could chatter
them
to anyone interested as
they are received, and conceivably "only chatter me
things about
the L2 of <key>"
☟︎ trinque: but I like
the stardate being present
mats: simultaneously growing up in america among
the wastage and vast consumption culture,
the whole
thing is ugly
to its core
trinque: how does scarcity evaluate
to cooperation and unity in your mind?
mats: i grew up violently scolded whenever i'd leave meat on bones, grains of rice behind on
the plate, and i've carried
this discipline
through
to adulthood
trinque: in regards
to WoT, it allows me
to at any
time rebuild
the graph with certainty
trinque: especially as relates
to
the payments system
trinque: I lean
towards flipping
the model
to "decrypt and sign
this command + OTP" vs "decrypt and send in
the clear
this OTP"
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-11-28 18:37 asciilifeform: wot rating is
the one scenario
that most screamingly calls for attributable proclamation.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-02 14:56 mircea_popescu:
trinque here's a strategic point for your consideration : eulora will move
to a rsa auth model sometime next year.
this means
the client generates itself a key, and
talks
to
the server. i don't want
to create a special deedbot for eulora, and so, how do we best interoperate
them so
that i have rate and deeds in-game ? (ideally
the wot visualisations and other such beauty also)
mats: i mean specifically
the folks ~in space~ rather
than
those on earth, aspiring
to be
there. no longer
taking free air, water, food for granted, cooperating
to survive in vacuum or organizing as a society
to
terraform $planet
mats: this will sound naive, but humans in outer space represents an ideal of social cooperation and unity of purpose - against
the environment
trying
to kill us -
that i feel we've long since lost
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-11-01 21:29 asciilifeform:
trinque: consider: a 'saturn' and
the maersk cargo fleet cost similarly. but
they are unlike: 'saturn' is a cult/religious object (in
the sense where nobody seriously attempts
to calculate its roi) , rather more like
the great pyramids.
mats: i have half a dozen of
them hanging and another
ten or eleven in a crate
trinque: mats:
that series of posters was pretty damn good
mats: i'd have asked
that canadian fella
to print all
the spacex and nasa sets on canvas but he had
to go and be retarded, so...
mats has a great
travel poster of olympus mons
trinque: in
the mountains up
there'd be great for hermitage
trinque: Tacoma Washington suddenly sprung
to mind
phf: trinque: yes yes
that's why i prefer going sporting with rednecks and southerners,
they don't cry about
things
trinque: sounds perfectly southern
to me
phf: when i came
to u.s. my biggest surprise was
that locals are into neither. you
try and rough
them up
they
think you some kind of crazy person, you
try and get
them into a debate
they get all scared and confused.
phf: people i knew back home were much more into verbal sparring, but following
the same principles, you enter into dialog
take a lot of abuse hope
to come out on
top, but at
the end everyone's friends
phf: so Berlin boys at
the same hotel would rag on
them, but from remote, because
thems berlins boys were much more into
talking)
phf: i met
this small family of germans on a vacation growing up, and
they were very visceral, roughing and
tumbling with each other, and when i joined in
their play, it was
tough,
they'd punch hard and
try and sink you in
the pool, but
they acted same way with each other and just generally enjoyed what was happening. in fact i'm pretty sure
they
took it easy on me. i remembering
thinking
that
they were like wolf cubs (they were from Dresden
mircea_popescu: "i got a bun in
the oven, or maybe i'm just late, does ivan still drink ?"
phf: "i have
this idea for a project, maybe i'll complete it by
the end, or maybe i won't even start, so what are you working on?"
mircea_popescu: the focus moves from achievement
to "we were physically
together
tapping keys for a
time" i nthe exact same sense iranian women hang out
together in
the kitchen. "participative experience".
mircea_popescu: phf incidentally,
to round
the
thing, let's compare
the 90s compo with
the 2010s hackathon. o,
that's right,
these lame kids come from schools with no grades!
the concept of
there being a winner, of choice and hierarchy is all but lost.
mircea_popescu: i can't say i ever used either
that much
to
tell, but i did fuck around with art studio a lot as a 6 yo
mircea_popescu: place's been coming in a big way since
the 1859 gold find put it on
the map, and
throughout
this century and a half it never ammounted
to more
than high rents and jam
tomorrow.
mircea_popescu: and for
the record,
this has been ongoing. in 1916 it was EXACTLY
the same nonsense "oh, california is coming in a big way, let's move
the
theatrical company over".
phf: "floppy drives are so HOT
this year"
phf: was sort of notorious for publishing "cyber speculative" nonsense in
the style of whatshisname, rock singer