232200+ entries in 1.92s
trinque: it aims
to cause you
to do certain
things
trinque: the
thing is a political
tool, and either does or does not acheive its desired effects
ben_vulpes: i will motherfucking *not* shuffle both patches/* and .wot/* around when i want
to press.
this is stupid and carves off a whole space of adjacent possible.
ben_vulpes: i get
the impression i disastrously fail
to understand your point,
trinque .
ben_vulpes: i reserve
the right
to hold onto gavins patches and never press
them by use of .wot.
ben_vulpes: of course it does,
that's what .wot is for.
trinque: otherwise yes, asciilifeform is right
that if
this doesn't matter, just have a
thing
that presses patches with hashes in
the m
trinque: you do not
trust
the seal; you
trust
the identity
ben_vulpes: trinque: best i saw was
that you want more
than one seal and i'm content with one
trinque: were
they not in
the logs?
trinque: but I cannot see *why*
they should other
than "I just want
to"
ben_vulpes: mod6: aha, privkey_tools descends from
the low_s and
testnet patches
trinque: if I am
truthfully
the only one present
that sees parts of
the hard definition of
this
thing falling off all
the
time I'll leave it
there.
phf: ah, yeah i see. ok i'll keep funken one in experimental
too, and move it
to deprecated eventually
mod6: with some minor
tweaks
ben_vulpes: and sure, if .wot is
the empty set, return
true ;)
☟︎ ben_vulpes: trinque: if all vpatches from genesis
to HEAD carry a signature corresponding
to a key in .wot, v presses.
that signatures exist in .seals for people i don't choose
to put
the key for into .wot should not matter.
trinque: ben_vulpes: what keys, you said you don't have
them anywhere
trinque: how is
this effective use of crypto at all?
ben_vulpes: trinque: all
three implementations show which keys signed which patches in flow output.
phf: well, since collective reaction is "tis but a scratch" i have nothing else
to say, and will happily await mircea_popescu's unrate
☟︎ trinque: presses
the
thing sealed because ambiguous somebody signed?
trinque: ben_vulpes: what does
the
thing do if not exit?
mod6: im just
trying
to minimize
the warts a bit.
mod6: phf: naw. even mircea_popescu has encouraged me
to release it, even if it has warts.
phf: ben_vulpes: well,
the point of V
that has been celebrated is its ability
to support a scientific dialog. you say something, i make a response, etc.
this
thread was literally about
three different versions, one of
them is stale, one of
them is unreleased.
there's not really an easy way
to point
to
the line and say "oh
this is what
this does" etc. i claim
that
the source of
this problem is fear.
the genesis has
to be perfect for all
mod6: that seems fine, and yes, less painful
to me.
mod6: i like
the idea
that you've got 'mod6 & ben_vulpes' in your .wot, and
that you hvae 69,000 sigs in your .seals dir, and only select out
the ones
that match
the .wot.
ben_vulpes: i hold
that exiting on discovery of a seal with no corresponding key in .wot puts an unnecessary burden on
the operator
to maintain system state.
mod6: And I'm happy
to embark on a genesis once we resolve
these current problems and
the
testing and review by lords is complete.
mod6: i do want
that
traceibility from V, of my V.
trinque: real quick what
the hell is eggog
a111: Logged on 2016-01-24 03:21 mircea_popescu:
to put it in you'll have
to sign it. if it
turns out later
to have a hole, people will negrate you.
mod6: and who knows, imho,
there's no gigantic rush
to make a genesis for v. especially when we're still
trying
to work out how it should work.
mod6: creating a genesis is a different
thing
too; v create a genesis of v. which i did work out, but alas, as you are eluding
to, i never published because was nervous
that it hadn't been very well audited yet.
phf: well, last
time i brought it up with mod6 he said something along
the lines of "i'm not ready
to sign, because it's still work in progress"
☟︎ ben_vulpes: phf: now
tell me if
that's sloth or fear
trinque: and fwiw phf I merely said "do not come
to me asking about phf", recently. I did not say further.
phf: none of
them are genesis + vpatch revisions.
mod6: mine is signed 69
times for sure.
trinque: but
there is a place
to do so, where
there could be separation between
the lab and
the published-in-journal
phf: ben_vulpes:
this subthread since your response
to my original statement is one example of what i'm
talking about. in
this case none of
the v implementations are on btcbase, because nobody wants
to sign own hacks, because
the cost of failure is
too high.
☟︎ trinque: my digestion of
the notion of opposable signatures produces
this output.
trinque: V as conceived as a political weapon against
the shitsucking github fuck does not work without
the attribution
the signatures provide
trinque: my objects can be better stated as an irritation
that
the political considerations here do not seem
to be driving
the conversation.
ben_vulpes: and argument ad
that's how it was done does not carry
ben_vulpes: then wot-variant presses were never possible with
the originally released v?
mod6: infact, i stole
that error message.
mod6: i posit
that it did indeed.
mod6: i'm happy
to re-write/overhaul/whatever
this
thing.
mod6: but i'm
trying
to get down
to brass
tacks as much as possible.
mod6: now, we not want
that behviour any longer.
☟︎ mod6: <+ben_vulpes> no,
that's death() ing on a patch for which
the system had valid seals, yours and mine. <<
this i dont agree with -- from a
technical perspective. it looks
to me
that girl had "ascii and mod6" in .wot, and when it came across Mr. P.'s genesis .sig, it honked.
mod6: im <+ben_vulpes> just because mircea_popescu didn't complain about
the failure at
the
time doesn't make it right. << maybe.
trinque: this squirming away from "why does
the output not match
the pages of ideology" is
troubling.
ben_vulpes: that
there are 3 implementations of v is an indicator of healthy amounts of risk
taking.
phf: ben_vulpes:
this was a general comment, but
the cost of failure is so high, simple
things have become needlessly complicated.
trinque: but we can "just wante
to press" because god's children
trinque: and what, I have
to be drinking
to see
this? spent pages criticizing
the horrible, accidental evolution of cat.