tmsr - Search: i

23400+ entries in 0.168s

mod6: I'm just sitting over here, pondering The Foundation monthly address...

BingoBoingo: 5 years later and I'm still working on it

BingoBoingo: I remember reading the original mice and men piece on Trilema and thinking "I gotta start fixing myself"

mircea_popescu: i had apparently forgotten.

BingoBoingo: Anyways, having stepped away from the shovel and rereading I realize I also left out any timelines of the frog boiling

BingoBoingo: I'll look into that too, since moving to mp-wp should have alleviated that.

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo also weirdly i don't get your pingbacks

mircea_popescu: so i'd say needs a rewrite.

mircea_popescu: also i wouldn't give http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/#selection-67.90-67.101 & co obscure grupuscle any voice. freeze peach, really ? five morons talking about "things" "as if they were things" dun make "things" anything.

asciilifeform: grr, #9e3779b8, the 1 flips. i'ma leave this alone until proggy.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm baking a proggy that shits out sister keys, if it still dun make sense, you can wait till its birthed and try yourself.

BingoBoingo: If the censorship resistance piece survives peer review, Imma test it on some orcs and start using it as my explainer to heathens for why the fuck I am in this hell hole

BingoBoingo: ^ asciilifeform mod6 mircea_popescu Please correct me if I have misunderstood anything

diana_coman: ale for the choice of underlying primitive polynomial but I'm still fuzzy on what goes on in there exactly

diana_coman: basically I get http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867091 BUT can't yet follow it to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867092 mainly because it seems to me that the effect of A is basically in fixing d,f,h (so that xor(a,d,f,h)=0); in short: wouldn't a change (of any number of bits) in a trigger (if imposing xor(a,d,f,h)=0 still) changes further in b-h so that the resulting key schedule is different? theoretically that would be the ration ☝︎☝︎☟︎

diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867144 -> asciilifeform, do you mind outlining how you see this? I'm still chewing it all but atm I have trouble fully grasping this. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: i don't actually follow your proggy any ; regardless, the values it spits dun seem to agree with what i expect.

asciilifeform: yer example dun go with the arithmetic on my planet, no matter how i define 'x'

mircea_popescu: i guess this'll have to rest then.

asciilifeform: i dun currently know how to make it clearer.

mircea_popescu: i honestly have nfi what you're talking aboot.

asciilifeform: try the proggy, it will make sense, i suspect

mircea_popescu: i confess i dunno what teh breakdown is, here.

mircea_popescu: there's a reason i say " Consider K = 01010"

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you agree that if i give you 5 equations with 5 unknowns, this is in fact resolvable ?

asciilifeform: i.e. crosscut shredder.

asciilifeform: err if i encrypt message=2 with key=10, i get same 5 as if i encrypt message=7 with key=10

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if i encrypt message=2 with key=10, i get same 5 as if i encrypt message=2 with key=10

asciilifeform: .. and how do i eat P[2] = P[2] x P[3] x P[5] , it's recursive

asciilifeform: so how does this diff from the previous item , what am i missing

mircea_popescu: E[1] = P[1] x P[2] x P[4] ; P[2] = P[2] x P[3] x P[5] is what i meant.

asciilifeform: then i dungetit

asciilifeform: grr, loox like i munged it, 1s, will fix

mircea_popescu: E[i] = K[0]*P[a] x K[1] * P[b] x ...

asciilifeform: i suspect i'ma need some strong чифир for this chipher

a111: Logged on 2018-10-29 19:22 diana_coman: asciilifeform, that helps, thank you! I had to take break and I'm slow on this sort of things so it'll take a while until I get to say anything

diana_coman: asciilifeform, that helps, thank you! I had to take break and I'm slow on this sort of things so it'll take a while until I get to say anything ☟︎

deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/so-i-designed-a-block-chipher/ << Trilema - So I designed a block chipher.

asciilifeform: i deciphered these with perl script, for a living, for yrs.

mircea_popescu: ow shit, i mystypoed in the title, wtf is a "chipher".

asciilifeform: i did

asciilifeform: lol you almost got me, i half-expected the piece to be about a block cipher

mircea_popescu: i'd have said more, but the editor showed wordcount 777, and i deem this a very good omen re cipher quality.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2018/so-i-designed-a-block-chipher/

asciilifeform: yaya i have both papers here

diana_coman: I can cite though from the 2000 paper (or apparently 2000...): "Since then we have sought to strengthen the algorithm and improve its performance. As a result, we have selected new, stornger, S-boxes and changed the key schedule slightly."

diana_coman: I'm re-reading here with pen and paper

asciilifeform: for lulz, would be interesting to dig up the list of 'luminaries' who voted for serpent. ( last i recall, it was public )

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm still boggled re the sheer wtf of it all.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: that's exactly what i remembered.

diana_coman: asciilifeform, yes re original - I could not source it and no idea why

asciilifeform: ( i'd walk over to uni to try an' dig it up, but then remembered that they abolished the paper-papers archive for 'electronic' lulz )

asciilifeform: btw i seem to recall that the original mircea_popescu & diana_coman thread where 'let's try serpent' turned up that the current 'paper' is not in fact the original, and the orig has evaporated. nao gotta wonder what was in it.

asciilifeform: hilariously, i have a tall pile of academiliquishit re serpent right here on desk, and it ALL without exception dwells on the sboxes & lineartransform, 0 discussion of key schedule.

asciilifeform: ( i certainly didn't expect ~this~ 3days in... )

asciilifeform: i do suggest to look for a spare tyre, tho, this one's hissing air.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand not; we're at http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866454 . ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 17:04 mircea_popescu: in short, because this winding discussion risks overwhelming buffers, the salient points are a) that i'm not ready to go to war over serpent, it's a meh-maybe item ; b) that building our spearheads around items we're not willing to die for may be how the converse of http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bitcoin+corrupts altogether.

a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 16:48 mircea_popescu: i am experimenting with serpent, and yes it's borne of that ancient discussion of ours, but i'm nowhere near-ready to bake it into "this is tmsr secure disk"

asciilifeform: washington can pay for its own auto-pill fpga, if they want one tho, i dun see why to do this work for them.

asciilifeform: i will, eventually, if nobody else can be arsed

asciilifeform: i can't speak for other folx, but i'ma have to repeat h. hughes, 'fly in it? i wouldn't walk under it'

asciilifeform: i suspect that the thing was a mine planted specifically, if you will, for tmsr.

asciilifeform: i feel pretty stupid, tbh, for not noticing in '16

asciilifeform: i gotta take off my hat to whoever cooked that up.

asciilifeform: it also suggests a very different picture, vs the one i previously supposed, re why it didn't win the tourney. ( rather than washington:'omfg too strong', rather went 'omfg our academi.flunkies kissing arse so hard they cant breathe' )

mircea_popescu: the reason being that it wasn't gonna move till i baked it in some pie.

asciilifeform: thus far, afaik, we already know that there aint 2**256 possible 528-byte serpent expandedkeys. nor 2**128. and as i currently suspect, not even 2**64 .

asciilifeform: at this point i strongly suspect that the actual bitness, is 64 OR SMALLER

mircea_popescu: it's what i do for a living.

mircea_popescu: i have problems with statements.

mircea_popescu: i agreed it is not civilised!

asciilifeform: now i want reverse.

asciilifeform: well i put in {1,2,3,4} and out came {1,2,3,5}.

asciilifeform: what am i missing

mircea_popescu: i agree this is uncivilised.

asciilifeform: let's try this. so i throw in {1,2,3,4,5} and the rng cranks and i get a {1,2,3,5,5}, then i put it back and rng cranks again and i get a {1,2,3,4,4}, with nonzero probability. so i reversed ??

mircea_popescu: a fuck i did it backlwards

asciilifeform: i dun get it, what's P5 ?

mircea_popescu: i can reverse it, cuz P4 or P5 are E4 so i need to now nothing.

asciilifeform: i.e. have exactly same number of possible outputs as there are inputs

mircea_popescu: i'm not so persuaded by this latest bit.

asciilifeform: now we factor out the ... xor 16#9e3779b9# xor Unsigned_32(I), it's an injective operation (neither adds nor subtracts entropy) ;

asciilifeform: i.e. 85-bit strength, possibly smaller ( i haven't algebraicized the entire recurrence yet )

asciilifeform: i'ma refrain from pons&fleischmanning this one..

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not only were you right, but i just about have a handle on deriving the factual key bitness of serpent..

mircea_popescu: Mocky_ yeah but i wanted to drive the point home.

diana_coman: asciilifeform, no proof that I'm aware of, as per earlier http://www.dianacoman.com/2017/11/22/taming-of-the-serpent-in-ada/#selection-49.0-49.393

asciilifeform: actually, funnily enuff , i nao see a proof for serpent's, but not keccak

mircea_popescu: i'm not aware such a thing was ever proven.

asciilifeform: mebbe i'm thick and it's a trivial provable ? ( diana_coman ? mircea_popescu

asciilifeform: relatedly, asciilifeform tried to bake a proof that the lamehash keyinflater function of serpent is one-to-one ( i.e. actually carries 256bit of the key register's entropy into the 528 bytes of whiteolade ) and not only didnt , but realized that afaik no such proof exists for any 'troo' hash also ( incl keccak.. ) ☟︎

mircea_popescu: i dunno i like "block" to begin with.

asciilifeform: ^ summary of serial i/o processor thing asciilifeform baked. will be applicable even if we come up with sumthing less sad than serpent, in fyootoor.

BingoBoingo: It is an issue I am concretely running into

asciilifeform: at this point i strongly suspect that there ~isn't~ a 'why', author pulled thing out of his arse like the others.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i looked over notes from the 1st time i read the thing, and had same reaction then ! but then, left with 'maybe i find why'. 3y later, not found why !

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i have nfi why ANY of those!

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: potentially interesting, but i suspect that it wont do much for the idjit heathens , who dun grasp even most basic step of hygiene , i.e. letting go of dnsism