log☇︎
23400+ entries in 0.012s
asciilifeform: q is how many are missing chunks tho, as well as cut .
mp_en_viaje: yeah, but probably correct approach is to have client not split such a line wrongly.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: unfuck split [ ] ? this is good idea imho
snsabot: Logged on 2017-02-18 17:29:22 asciilifeform: '... what was once dedication is replaced by greed and sometimes sheer need as the motivation to enter the field.'
asciilifeform: 'lamp' and the influx of deskilled labour connected with its rise , is imho exactly basketball tumour, and succinctly summarized by naggum
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, incientally re http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928496 : ny chance your logger can be persuaded to un-fuck broken [][] lines ?
mp_en_viaje: the fact that they, literally, snatched defeat from jaws of victory, makes one suspect maybe these coulds weaker than desired.
asciilifeform: i see the wwwism fad as tumour mass, rather than giraffe. yes from 'who's got the most cells, haha' tumour in yer chest the size of basketball is a 'success' .
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 03:18:36 mp_en_viaje: now then, linux ~could have~ also been the definitive video stack, giving itself a lease on life extending past ~now. but then they fucked it all up.
mp_en_viaje: but it didn't! is the important point. yes giraffe could have had trunk and elephant wings. COULD HAVE. DID NOT. major diff.
asciilifeform: diff crack, in different place, in pavement , than early www .
asciilifeform: asciilifeform has somewhat atypical ( and to mp_en_viaje , grating ) pov re linux because was never wwwist (until voluntarily fell on this grenade for tmsr work) , instead earned bread for yrs on such things as ~non networked~ linux boxen where crunched numbers, drove eldritch machinery, etc
asciilifeform: but to take this angle further -- it could have easily grown ( just as briefly, or longer, no one can know ) through ~different~ crack. if were not for www fad, could easily know linux today as 'that thing weird greybeards use for cnc-ing submarine propellers'
mp_en_viaje: i don't even disagree with the broad model.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's model is, linux grew briefly in '90s exactly like tree seedling briefly grows through pavement crack. but in the end the tar pot and the roller do come, crack is sealed.
mp_en_viaje: you should see the atrocity that is facebook, today's successor. works actually worse than hotmail of the hopeful microsoft days
asciilifeform: all such exceptions, strictly temporary.
asciilifeform: so they had to make grudging exception.
asciilifeform: the 'cluck' tech was not up to the level, just yet, of 'deskill AND still worx-well-enuff-for-the-chumps-to-eat'
asciilifeform: when 'let's run it on microshit' and had to backpedal
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, what about the hotmail purchase ?
mp_en_viaje: note that it does not start 1900. present and attested 1346
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 03:21:21 mp_en_viaje: so, not to put too fine a point on it : i really don't give so much of a shit what peculiar buttdildos you use in your own special universe to make yourself feel "different from the rest", "poetic", "not understood" and whatever other such highschooler personal investments. the fact of the matter is, linux exists for and through and by and because apache, mysql, and the glue gluing these together : php. that's wha
mp_en_viaje: then again, when the king's qualified to king age 12... shortsightedness comes with the crown.
snsabot: Logged on 2018-07-12 14:00:03 mircea_popescu: but do you recall the case of the misfortunate doria charge ?
mp_en_viaje: "oh, they're all dogs".
mp_en_viaje: this is also true, as a broad trend. it is unfortunate but true that the inept king prefers crossbowmen over archers, because archers take lifetime to train and dedication from puberty to craft, whereas crossbow can be operated by... outsourced labour. it takes a certain sort of short-sightedness to not notice the implicit band-of-brothers vs your own nobles cutting down your own mercs
asciilifeform: both, however, occasionally forced to make 'unprincipled exception', cuz the set of what can be done by deskilled monkey with 'cluck' tool is never 100% .
asciilifeform: the capitalist of 1900 and the bureaucrat of 2000 have entirely common interest in deskilling ( skilled labour is poison , from pov of either ) and the underlying parts , whether computer or lathe or whatever, dun particularly matter, same pressure
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 03:13:51 mp_en_viaje: i am aware various sysadmin-y folks flatter themselves that "something unixlike'd have existed anyway for our terminal&cmdline needs". this is utterly false, they'd have been clucking at GUI interfaces exactly like the medical profession / barristas everywhere, and been thankful when .jar finally rolled around.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 03:16:47 mp_en_viaje: the 1990s "tech support" kiddo (perhaps best typified by thorne, who is a faggoty "designer" ; though i'm aware everyone'd rather it be "BOFH" or whatever similar self-wank) running grep over everyone-workking-at-the-videostore's hoemdirs never had any say or pulled any weight. toxicfact or haetfact or wha
asciilifeform: this in particular is broadly true , and asciilifeform even has old piece re subj. and is why http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928497 -- observe -- ended up happening anyway, the current 'linux admins' are, for most part, in fact clucking at gui knobs.
mp_en_viaje: so the idea is, somehow a better use for linux will be found ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 03:47:31 mp_en_viaje: i get it, the concept grates, "but mp, i could design so much better systems" no you couldn't. the linux thing was successful ~coincidentally~. a space of possibilities was explored, and this is what STUCK. you can't design a better pile of nonsense for the exact reason you can't design a better elephant trunk : it wasn't fucking designed! it's what stuck!
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928515 << this in particular is suspiciously similar to the traditional 'Free Market(tm)(r) gave us microshit, so eat up' of 1990s
asciilifeform: and from certain pov (e.g. scrap dealer's, who only melts it down) all the rusty carcasses in junkyard are ~exactlysame. but from pov of the folx who go in when mp_en_viaje asks 'build a tank by mid august' -- not quite same.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'm not about to defend individual pieces of the rusting junkyard from which built e.g. logger;
asciilifeform: ty phf , i'ma try said algo
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-bipolar-rates-are-increasing-as-long-as-youre-willing-to-call-everything-bipolar-and-defy-gods-will-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Bipolar Rates Are Increasing As Long As You're Willing To Call Everything Bipolar And Defy God's Will. Adnotated.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-21 14:49 phf: but correct way of handling this in python, is to read() line by line, which returns whatever, ascii, then parse the [date] <nick> bits as ascii, then take the rest of line and try: msg.decode('utf-8') except: msg.decode('latin-1')
phf: i even explain how to do it in python http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-21#1546421 ☝︎
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 01:00:50 asciilifeform: phf's bot, incidentally, ate. now would be a notbad time for the fella to come the hell out of his coma and say how.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-21 14:44 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-21#1546322 << this behavior has nothing to do with znc (unless you explicitly configured znc to recode your messages), it has to do with the fact that irc is encoding agnostic. used to be you had koi8-r only channels, or latin-1 only channels etc. now utf-8 is the "standard" but from back in those days you have a peculiar hack surviging in a lot of clients. everyone's expected to be able to read latin-1,
mp_en_viaje: ant to continue : https://internet.com/ ; much like IAC, QuinnStreet is a "S&P 600 Component", you know, with supposed revenue out of those shit "properties" and assorted other self-imagined bullshit. believe.
mp_en_viaje: drove the selection, how it drove it, etcetera.
mp_en_viaje: so, to conclude the whole discussion : designing-improvements-on-selected-systems might be the lulziest impedance mismatch of them all. the prime directive of the engineer is to first become aware of the selected portions of his environment, and then take care around them. yes, you can design things -- but only in well understood contexts. part of that understanding, ~central~ part of that understanding is awareness of the selected portions, what
mp_en_viaje: it's not there because it was designed ; it's there because it was selected, which is a different thing. selection produces things that work, definitionally, that's what it is. not well or correctly or properly but AT ALL.
mp_en_viaje: yes, i'm aware, if you made the giraffe it wouldn't have the laryngeal branch of the vagus go a mile around the heart. whopee for you, but do you know what ? galen was fucking aware this is happening in people too! it's called ~recurrent~ because it goes away and comes back, this is the case in all fucking mammals, equally "for no reason".
mp_en_viaje: i get it, the concept grates, "but mp, i could design so much better systems" no you couldn't. the linux thing was successful ~coincidentally~. a space of possibilities was explored, and this is what STUCK. you can't design a better pile of nonsense for the exact reason you can't design a better elephant trunk : it wasn't fucking designed! it's what stuck!
mp_en_viaje: yet ~the thing that runs python~ is already apache. definitionally. it's a broken half-way implementation of apache, but this doesn't make it either lighter or better or faster or anything. doing half the job ain't being "agile", it's being costly in a hidden manner : someone somewhere downstream will have to implement what you left out at the proper level, and it'll be more expensive then.
mp_en_viaje: then they're going to implement apache in php, because totally, this ~can~ be done. then they're going to have a lightweight apache to run their php and you're welcome to a) attempt to start three "servers" of this nonsense and b) wonder about the impedance mismatches.
mp_en_viaje: it's your knife, covered in some waste of your tin foil.
mp_en_viaje: yes, guido von fucktard is going to "invent" a "language to make programming easy for everyone", hurr. it's exactly as needed as a tin-foil-covered-kitchen-knife makes a great birthday present. yes, a bright 5yo / retarded 12yo might give you that for your birthday ; you may even briefly interact with it. it's still not a fucking thing --
mp_en_viaje: and this nonsense then drives and is driven by the typically ustardian mode of failure, "we'll be rich by doing each other's laundry" "service economy" answer to the exact problem of argentina discussed above is then manifested in the "we'll just wrap everything in wrapping wrappy wrapers" "tech"/"innovation"/"entrepreneurial" nonsense.
mp_en_viaje: python/perl/whatever are not "better php". they might be more comfortable php, which is exactly like "i feel weird buying condoms otc, i really need a brown paper bag". fine, whatever works for you. don't tell me though stories about "the really cool store with the really better condoms". they're not better just because the clerk awkwardness-matches you and the SAME EXACT fmcg offering is proffered in an extra brown paper wrapper.
mp_en_viaje: linux-server-database-scriptglue. that's what it's gonna be. call them what you will, but try and remember : buying "alternatives" doesn't make you alternative. i buy rope from the rope store and server from the apache store because i don't wanna pay 5x for shittier rope bought at the "special bdsm store". it dun do nothing for me.
mp_en_viaje: yes, you can use "flask" instead of apache. it's shitty, they know is shitty, the reason they "dont recommend" you put it naked on #80 is precisely that they know it's shit.
mp_en_viaje: the fucking design of ~everything~ linux is always the same, and always this. divergence from this is neither clever nor ever functional, it'll always reduce to "i'm running LPyFFF because I don't understand why F has to come before the alt-P".
mp_en_viaje: yes, there's alternatives. of course there are. you don't have to coca cola, there's also pepsi. you like postgres more than mysql, well the fuck done, use that then. it'll be still used as an M in LAMP. because that's what the damned thing is, "flexibility" my ass.
mp_en_viaje: i don't give a shit what you tell the orcs back home, or your crying inner 6yo at night or anything else -- buy the ticket, take the ride.
mp_en_viaje: when you get a job with microsoft, you ~also~ buy the 90yo "representative" from iowa being "senior" just as you buy the add treatment for your kids and the wood frame house in vinyl siding and "black culture" and everything else.
mp_en_viaje: at's the doctrine and the standard solution and the "werkzeug"/kunstkammer of it.
mp_en_viaje: so, not to put too fine a point on it : i really don't give so much of a shit what peculiar buttdildos you use in your own special universe to make yourself feel "different from the rest", "poetic", "not understood" and whatever other such highschooler personal investments. the fact of the matter is, linux exists for and through and by and because apache, mysql, and the glue gluing these together : php. that's what it is, that's what it's for, th
snsabot: Logged on 2018-11-27 16:37:59 mircea_popescu: gnu managed to drive directx into the ground, on the strength of naive if well meaning contributors, and then managed to give the advantage back to windows, and snatch defeat from the very jaws of victory, on the strength of imbecile management.
mp_en_viaje: now then, linux ~could have~ also been the definitive video stack, giving itself a lease on life extending past ~now. but then they fucked it all up.
mp_en_viaje: the 1990s "tech support" kiddo (perhaps best typified by thorne, who is a faggoty "designer" ; though i'm aware everyone'd rather it be "BOFH" or whatever similar self-wank) running grep over everyone-workking-at-the-videostore's hoemdirs never had any say or pulled any weight. toxicfact or haetfact or whatever, fact stays fact.
mp_en_viaje: i am aware various sysadmin-y folks flatter themselves that "something unixlike'd have existed anyway for our terminal&cmdline needs". this is utterly false, they'd have been clucking at GUI interfaces exactly like the medical profession / barristas everywhere, and been thankful when .jar finally rolled around.
mp_en_viaje: without this, all of linux (and all of the SMALLER foss, which piggy-backs on it, and always has, and always would have and forever would have had ; and certainly all of the even smaller and insignificant if more organisedly-stupid GNU) would have forever stayed the exact equivalent of an obscure gentoo repackaging three kids maintain for purely self-actualisation & escapist reasons. [http://trilema.
mp_en_viaje: so, the only reason linux exists, let me restate that actually : THE ONLY FUCKING REASON LINUX EXISTS is the sheer coincidence that people got the lamp stack (read : linux, apache, mysql, php) going just in time for the september that never ended fallout.
mp_en_viaje: since i exhausted him, i will now bark into the ethers (until someone wakes up), in the form of the following consumer computing likbez that we can all discuss once everyone else is sober -- im having second thoughts as to whether i ever want to be sober again.
mp_en_viaje: look at that, "the pellets project" (apt name if i've ever seen one) has documentation of this geficktzug or w/e it was.
mp_en_viaje: or wait, i got them wrong didn't i. kunstjig and zugkammer ?
mp_en_viaje: Flask is a lightweight WSGI web application framework. It is designed to make getting started quick and easy, with the ability to scale up to complex applications. It began as a simple wrapper around Werkzeug and Jinja and has become one of the most popular Python web application frameworks." << really makes me want to be sober, reading that thing.
mp_en_viaje: hey, you're the one juggling flasks.
asciilifeform: ok i'ma come back to this thrd when erryone sober.
mp_en_viaje: you know, apache has this built-in scripting language we won't name to run db queries.
asciilifeform: wtf is that
mp_en_viaje: dispose with flask dependency and all that.
mp_en_viaje: also stating ftr : if /me had designed this, it'd have been one single apache server, handling directories into which various cron-run pythons vomited whatever. not even port binding, comms through fs.
mp_en_viaje: fucking circus ropeshow you got going there...
asciilifeform: well 2 atm, snsa shop currently points to static 'sold out' pg.
mp_en_viaje: or you using multiple flasks for each of these
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, you know, you can prolly get flask bind to 80 ?
asciilifeform: it is. sole purpose of its life on the box, in fact , to send phuctor subdomain to 1 port, snsashop to other, now log -- to yet 3rd
mp_en_viaje: then again nginx should be doing that.
asciilifeform: and reach the py proggy's port how ?
mp_en_viaje: ill say ftr what while ~decade ago this was actually standard deployment, i've not been bothered to have it for a long time now
mp_en_viaje: so turn off, see what that does ?
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, yes but QoS and all that, port 80 is differently treated by routers, you're aware of this
mp_en_viaje: no fucking inkiling of an idea in their ferrous craniums that the ~moving~ is the point, nfi what overheads are, yakyakywak about "nos todos" and "social class" and whatever nonsense.
asciilifeform: pipe -- routinely gives sustained mb+/s, to my chair. but never before looked into what happens in 1st sec.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-13 15:10:34 BingoBoingo: Las empresas de consumo masivo aumentan sus precios hasta 15% y el Gobierno evalúa qué hacer con "Precios Esenciales" << Headline across the river
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928285 << in other keks, had to look up wtf this "consumo masivo" is supposed to be. ran into typically argentine socialist-fuckarded nonsense before realising it's how these "Los productos de consumo masivo se definen como productos de alta demanda. Son aquellos productos requeridos por todos los estratos de la socied
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-13 13:33:53 asciilifeform: so i still suspect it aint the pipe ( diana_coman lives at piz )
mp_en_viaje: and then you still http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928268 ?!
asciilifeform: aha. and bins. try the db dump, same 'burst' pattern
asciilifeform: rest -- transmission.
asciilifeform: cache will do 0, the actual page gen in 'heavy' sample on py end takes 0.070s !
mp_en_viaje: you never mentioned this ? did i miss some log parts ?
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, ok so then, what's the problem with the obvious course : test some static html files, see if it has same problem, implement cache as discussed yest when time permits and be done with it.