log☇︎
220600+ entries in 0.123s
asciilifeform: i don't see this fog of war.
mircea_popescu: wives next, yes, because totally, if whores hang the wives hang with them.
mircea_popescu: who next do i hang, whores ? for taking from fools money for that which they'd have free if they weren't fools ?
mircea_popescu: am i going to hang someone for being hostis idiotas ?
asciilifeform: what's the distinction?
mircea_popescu: save me the trouble in either case.
mircea_popescu: so no, there's no sympathy for "victims". don't be a victim. if you are a victim, either fix yourself or kill yourself.
asciilifeform: you still gotta hang the rogues. they are 'hostis humani generis'.
mircea_popescu: the pretense that "oh, i don't need the republic" or "oh, i use the tools at my leisure" or generally "oh, i'm an independent thinker in charge of my destiny" is what gets shot.
asciilifeform: folx who will not tie the camel -- deserve no sympathy.
asciilifeform: this, yes. 'trust allah, but tie the camel'
mircea_popescu: the information is there. daring to not use it is a crime worse than any fraud.
mircea_popescu: which one, the one where hanbot says "anyone who could be bothered to use the wot would have known what pirate is up to ; yet none of you fucksticks did, and fuck you, now you wanna dork about the wot not working ?" ?
asciilifeform: ecology -- is legitimately a thing (as distinct from enviro-whinery) and we all share atmosphere, etc.
asciilifeform: recall the other article though.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform consider the "from the sewers" spain discussion. yes, as desirable as ebola virus. keeps the
asciilifeform: pestilential, unpunished 'gypo' activity is how you end up with popular tyrants to begin with.
asciilifeform: but would tolerate 'gypos' in marketplace under his control ?
asciilifeform: so mircea_popescu is perfectly happy to punish those who would personally defraud ~him~
mircea_popescu: and yes, the answer to "random hootrat" "targeted, planned, premeditating theft of $item" is to take another $item, cut hoodrat's mother's head off and stuff $item in there.
mircea_popescu: you're misusing terms, that's definitionally not theft.
asciilifeform: this is kindergarten material, i thought.
asciilifeform: 'tis part of how you avoid being target. 'para bellum' etc.
asciilifeform: the only reasonable answer to targeted, planned, premeditated theft, is to disproportionalely punish the rogue. (as per mircea_popescu's disproportionate-punishment article)
mircea_popescu: even so. as any half competent mobster can tell you, by the time you're targeted for theft your organsiation's been utter shit for a while.
asciilifeform: to borrow the 'bullet vs shrapnel' old saw
asciilifeform: there's 'thief addressed to-occupant' and 'thief with your name on it'
mircea_popescu: if we're the target rather than other place it's time to slim down the org. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: thief is, as our russki friend points out, only out to do crime to us for goods he could get other place.
mircea_popescu: i don't actually bother with the thief.
asciilifeform: whom he shoots first? thief, or guard ?
mircea_popescu: suppose you find your girl in bed with another oh nm that. suppose you send girl to market, she comes back defrauded. who do you punish, her or him ?
asciilifeform: if i gotta bite ~every motherfucking gold coin~ , that is time that i am not doing whatever-else.
asciilifeform: 'guard labour' is a tax.
mircea_popescu: ideally trhough punishing the "victims".
asciilifeform: it is the ~principle~
mircea_popescu: but yes, in olden days there'd be.
mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone cares about a kg of produce enough these days.
asciilifeform: in righteous olden times there'd be a hanging.
mircea_popescu: you may also file a complaint if the weighs don't match ; if they pile on the offender won't be able to hire a stall there. that's about it.
asciilifeform: without honest weights and measures, there is no market, there is (in words of spiffy mircea_popescu article!) 'put maybe-potato in this bag, get a bag of maybe-coins'
mircea_popescu: you can go have your things weighed there.
mircea_popescu: nope. there's an official scale kept by market administration in all markets
asciilifeform: and betcha they still prosecute folx who diddle scales when selling goods by the kg, or alter petrol pump, etc
mircea_popescu: (i honestly have nfi and can't be arsed to find out)
mircea_popescu: i care about romania today in the sense you might care about the hittite empire. it sunk.
asciilifeform: i asked re today
asciilifeform: 'mmm' is legal in ro today ?
mircea_popescu: this is introduced at the latest to 7yos, and it's how it is, permanently.
mircea_popescu: romanian (at least before it was invaded and colonized by nato) culture has no concept of tort. the universal opposition to any attempt to pass the responsibility buck is "si daca-ti spunea sa sari in fintina, tu sareai ?" ie, and if he told you to jump down the well, would you have ?
mircea_popescu: allow me to expound :
mircea_popescu: i hold the malfeasant is punished there.
asciilifeform: the catch is that the miscreant and the punished are often disjoint.
mircea_popescu: most crimes actually contain their punishment. greek style.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger it's an age-based thing. younguns tend to try it out because thye need to because they suck ; as they stop sucking they stop needing to and adult identity is born. nothing wrong with any part of this.
asciilifeform: and dishonesty -- is always paid for, in the end.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my criticism was specifically that structuring them ~unopposably~ is an act of dishonesty.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-26 16:21 asciilifeform: it is partly the long-term 'ecological' perspective on this practice, that bothers me; but also that pretending to be multiple people, while being one, is a fundamentally dishonest and truth-hiding act.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607339 << just some conceptual posturing from me, but: i maintain that it's not 'dishonest' and may in fact be a robust strategy to survive in the world. it's easy to misuse it, though. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: the whole problem is that it's not possible to make it mandatory.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no argument there. not like it is VERBOTEN to structure the identities in a treee etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ben_vulpes and davout are evidently struggling with the trb ; so was mod6 before we fucked up his week with v stuff ; diana_coman is purging idiocy out of eulora and so on. plenty of people.
asciilifeform: it is partly the long-term 'ecological' perspective on this practice, that bothers me; but also that pretending to be multiple people, while being one, is a fundamentally dishonest and truth-hiding act. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: original thread was vague and ramified. i don't see what more you need than alf-fucks-goats key ; and the bugaboo of "but mp, then everyone can make random keys i won't know about" seems more like a childhood nightmare than anything.
asciilifeform: incidentally i am not seeing much uptake for the 'walking the walk' of mircea_popescu's position, so far. afaik asciilifeform is the only one currently struggling with ada, for instance.
asciilifeform: to code -- yes. but original thread concerned agricultural husbandry of old code, from heathendom.
mircea_popescu: since all code is code ; unlike how all materials are different atoms ; it may then perhaps follow that if you're going to code at all, best make it good.
asciilifeform: and gradually replacing the wood.
asciilifeform: we simply do not have the granite-world. and if we ever get it, it will be from 1,001 years of living in wooden one.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: same way i know 'it is NOT good to have the only vehicle be antigrav'
mircea_popescu: how do you know it's NOT good to have everything be made out of granite ?
mircea_popescu: somehow that hair doesn't bother. but anyway. you find yourself with each foot in a different rowboat, because on one hand you don;t want everything to be high quality code ; and on the other you think shitty quality code normalizes it and begets more of the same.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's true that once women started shaving it "never stopped" and adult vulvas look preteen these days. there's even some eyebrow shaving and repainting. but nobody;s shaved off their eyelashes yet ; on the contrary, those are fetishized and at expense elongated, painted etc.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-26 14:11 trinque: reactor 99947 vaporized the king upon inspection. who's asking the engineer what his rationale was?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607100 << this is iffy. i, for instance, would ask. i think. ☝︎
asciilifeform: except that it'll be no gain at all if as a result the expected material for ALL construction is granite.
mircea_popescu: which will be an awesome gain about on par with going from shovel to hydraulic autolocomotive tools.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-26 15:41 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607087 << this is actually not half-bad an idea, and it goes nicely in the direction of phf 's literate code, which i still think should be a distant, but present goal.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-26 14:07 asciilifeform: docs diverge from code routinely, and it is far from always the case that someone notices and corrects immediately.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607096 << yes but the meaning of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607284 was precisely that we CAN enforce "keep docs and code in same place ; and keep them in step or die". at least eventually. ☝︎☝︎
asciilifeform: in principle, strong d00d-with-shovel is exactly same as bulldozer. but in practice he is not, and bulldozer changed the type of construction that can be reasonably contemplated.
asciilifeform: correct, but note, it is done here using wot mechanisms, rather than hand-cranked moderator.
mircea_popescu: THAT is a process that works ; an imaginary strainer is fap fodder.
mircea_popescu: the continual ejection of lines of code which "Who knows, maybe they're useful"
mircea_popescu: that's kept sterile via airflow, which is to say, the continual negrating of random idiots who don't evidently have no business there. and such things.
asciilifeform: similar except that it is concerned with egress rather than ingress.
asciilifeform: (operating room is not even best example. ever been to what is in usa called a 'type 4 lab' ? the kind with air lock.)
mircea_popescu: but it was not sterilized by straining through semi-permeable membrane.
asciilifeform: last i saw an operating room, it was sterilized by more than mere promise.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-26 15:47 mircea_popescu: there isn't a better approach to this. in particular "creating a semi-permeable membrane" is not one of them.
mircea_popescu: "Plus ca e o nesecata fantana de umor. De exemplu : Cum isi gaseste un inginer cheile de la masina ? Construieste o membrana semi-permeabila care ingaduie trecerea oricarui obiect dar impiedica trecerea cheilor de masina." eerily apt in this conversation.
mircea_popescu: there isn't a better approach to this. in particular "creating a semi-permeable membrane" is not one of them. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: both because not that many corners, and not that many shitters.
mircea_popescu: which is how you end up with an operating room : a neat place with few nooks and crannies where only surgeons (as opposed to mice ; cockroaches ; bacteria) are allowed access. as a result, no shit hiding in corners.
mircea_popescu: trusted participants is the other.
mircea_popescu: there is no good solution to this problem, but small codebases aka fit-in-head is a very strong paleative, and to my mind its chief merit comes from just this.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-31 19:29 mircea_popescu: are you familiar with the von neumann set ?
a111: Logged on 2017-01-26 14:06 asciilifeform: trinque: the real trouble comes when somebody shits and no one (including, often , the shitter) even notices until , years later, they step in it.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607094 << this is entirely valid and utterly true. as the space of representation is so much larger than any possible inquiry (refresher http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594978 ) it then follows that plenty of shits won't be found until stepped on. ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-26 14:02 trinque: history.txt