log☇︎
22100+ entries in 0.011s
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the 2 'archived' links are identical
feedbot: http://thewhet.net/2019/08/impression-of-minsk-july-5th/ << The Whet -- Impression of Minsk, July 5th
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can think of a few riotously braindamaged proggies atm (e.g. 'sshd', where author somehow thought it acceptable to generate host key at boot ; and tcp stack, where seq #'s )
mircea_popescu: srsly now, IF there is such a thing as a program that needs crypto-grade entropy at boot time, it's a piece of shit.
bvt: mircea_popescu: i don't think it will lead to any vulnerability or something of this sort, no; but still there is a question of what the early users are (i.e. something in net stack, that will stick for a long time?)
bvt: asciilifeform: actually it may be easy to find early users with ftrace=function ftrace_filter=*random* at kernel command line, and then get the users out of tracefs
asciilifeform: and those by all rights oughta get marsaglia or similar penny 'entropy'. crypto-battlefield proggies have no biz making an appearance at boot time or in absence of init'd FG .
asciilifeform: strikes me as nuttery that e.g. nic driver, might not only want entropy, but ~in boot~
mircea_popescu: it's not my fault linux kernel was written by the zombie herd
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, various drivers ; various tables ; samplers ; all sorta crap.
asciilifeform: which crapola? ( the prng itself? (
mircea_popescu: to init the crapola.
bvt: the O ring needs to be initialized somehow, zero-filling it may be bad, and keeping the existing infrastructure for just boot-time entropy collection is not an option; should i look for something simple that would work for initialization?
mircea_popescu: while alf's "no need for entropy during boot" is not correct, nevertheless "no need for I-entropy" stands, can just use the O register until you can indeed http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930512
mircea_popescu: bvt indeed, if there's no I to O overflow, then O just acts as a cprng, keeps hashing itself
bvt: asciilifeform: if you recall, this was my original plan, however i got impression from 'part of kernel & welded shut' here http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/fg-fed-linux-rng-work-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-44 that everything should be inside
asciilifeform: btw it remains unclear to asciilifeform , why entropy would be wanted ~during boot~ at all
asciilifeform: ftr imho a box that wants FG ~during~ boot, oughta have it on an actual rs232 port -- these get init'd very simply quite early during boot
asciilifeform: ( it's superficially appealing, but almost certain to get bogged down in particulars of usb2serial dongles, as well as the gnarly issue of actually identifying FG from other serial devices -- linux offers 0 hard guarantee of initialization order for serial gadgets )
asciilifeform: no need, as i understand, to actually read FG 'in kernel'
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 18:20:00 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-22#1930162 << the plan makes sense, i will implement it. though i intend to start from the 'read data from fg' position, because 1. opening tty devices from kernel without very dirty tricks became possible only in 4.13;
bvt: one q though, per my reading of the formalization, stretching happens only on I overflow? i.e. if there is a consumer reading from I, preventing it from overfilling, bytes would never fall into O, and stretching is not triggered?
bvt: 2. by tty model of linux, you don't pull data using tty driver, the driver pushes the data though several abstraction layers. i would have grok this stuff as well. there is at least one other driver that needs this functionality (for connecting a screenreader to a tty), so i can figure out stuff by looking at what it does.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 13:25:30 mircea_popescu: imo correct design is 16kb to cpu-cache-sized inner ring buffer, wherein fg material is simply written into a loop, plain ; and from where high quality entropy is read blockingly. whenever the writing head threatens to overwrite the reading head, the overwritten bits are instead fed into outer ring
bvt: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930128 is the correct ref
a111: Logged on 2019-08-22 16:43 mircea_popescu: imo correct design is 16kb to cpu-cache-sized inner ring buffer, wherein fg material is simply written into a loop, plain ; and from where high quality entropy is read blockingly. whenever the writing head threatens to overwrite the reading head, the overwritten bits are instead fed into outer ring
bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-22#1930162 << the plan makes sense, i will implement it. though i intend to start from the 'read data from fg' position, because 1. opening tty devices from kernel without very dirty tricks became possible only in 4.13; ☝︎
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: reminiscent of ameristan's 'cuz it's where the money is'(tm)(r)(dillinger)
BingoBoingo: Entrar armado a un banco "es la cosa más linda" porque "todo el mundo te respeta" - Pepe Mujica, former president and bank robber
snsabot: Logged on 2018-06-12 20:54:54 mircea_popescu: anyway, your design is dysfunctional in that (even allowing for it modelling somewhat close to reality, which i have no faith it does) suppose today someone gives you a working pill, and june 27th google patches the hole. and the someone says "dood, i have nfi, i honestly didn't tell anyone anything".
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 13:23:00 hanbot: asciilifeform thx for reminding me of that thread. somehow it seemed obvious then, lol.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930493 << ftr, that thrd : >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-06-12#1824598
asciilifeform: ( not even to mention having to escape something as commonplace as > < & etc )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 12:34:46 spyked: asciilifeform, IMHO the custom markup idea for new blogotron ain't bad, but it might piss off ppl used to mp-wp, who still use ye olde html tags. I'm curious to hear opinions, given that I'm working on this exact thing for thetarpit
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930461 << this might be an irreconcilable 'religious' q. asciilifeform for instance thinks that having to write <b>foo</b> instead of *foo* is braindamaged.
nicoleci: Ftr, i've been trying to get ahold of Ballas at his office in Maryland for two weeks now. The first time I called, receptionist told me hes only in the office on Wednesdays, I called back on Wednesday and was told he left early. Then when I called yesterday she told me that he's working from home today. Slippery dude.
hanbot: asciilifeform thx for reminding me of that thread. somehow it seemed obvious then, lol.
asciilifeform: i was actually somewhat surprised when saw mircea_popescu undertake 'digest tlp' . it seems rather similar to the work of gathering usable scrap metal from chernobyl.
mircea_popescu: i could write say 8 or so more adnotations today. will not, because i can't fucking take moar "o look what i read in washington vice"
asciilifeform gets already 1000x the digestible dose , purely from ^ and from seepage via qntra
mircea_popescu: s retarded skullholes is both a daily irritant and the actual limit on the speed of digestion
mircea_popescu: in fact, the little that leaks through tlp
mircea_popescu: "statements of the state organs of the usg"
mircea_popescu: not the old pravda, the current pravda.
asciilifeform on occasion ~actually~ does read it. well, not usually the daily maculature per se (try an' find it) but e.g. recently read a sovok-pov history of rome. entertaining.
asciilifeform: it'd be rather like trying to hire pigeons to clean a statue.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather donate to the democratic party than give anything to the "unmotivated" scum of the net
mircea_popescu: i really don't ~want~ to give anything to these moral repugnants in the first place.
asciilifeform: just possibly -- on a 'pre-1993' net , i.e. fulla actual people, this would not be. but on current -- so
asciilifeform recalls the ' cr50 bounty ' thrd. mircea_popescu made very persuasive arg re 'takes >= work to adjudicate contest as to do the actual job' .
hanbot: i don't think it'd require bringing douchebags in; have a list of unsolved refs, assign a reviewer for public submissions (i'd volunteer), award if solved, relationship can end there.
hanbot: mircea_popescu it occurs to me, in today's attempt to catch up with trilema pieces: didja rule out offering a public bounty for forgotten references a la http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-biology-is-destiny-adnotated/#footnote_3_86951 ?
mircea_popescu: you don't grow the pantsuit from visual contact with that dude's bald head directly
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, it's mildly comedic 1980s dissociated jew fiction. not more immediately dangerous than say watching star trek
mircea_popescu: new mark-up once tmsr browswer.
mircea_popescu: i dunno why learn two htmls.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 05:22:30 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930241 << rather's the case, dude watched so much seinfeld he's so very firmly committed to non-committal he'll very happily die of it just to make a point "to the world". whatevers.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930304 << possibly mircea_popescu won't believe that it is possible when doing 25yrs in usaschwitz, but : asciilifeform never saw 'seinfeld' . should i ? ( and, will turn into vegetable immediately ?! ) iirc it was 1 of those ameri-'comedians' where 0 actual humour, and audience had to be 'reminded to laugh' via taped laffs ?
spyked: asciilifeform, IMHO the custom markup idea for new blogotron ain't bad, but it might piss off ppl used to mp-wp, who still use ye olde html tags. I'm curious to hear opinions, given that I'm working on this exact thing for thetarpit
spyked: hm, it seems that feedbot forgot to deliver some posts today because of the changes I made yesterday. fixed this and will include changes in next vpatch
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/09c-hunchentoot-via.html << The Tar Pit -- Hunchentoot: requests and replies [a]
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-can-narcissism-be-cured-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Can Narcissism Be Cured?. Adnotated.
diana_coman: I suspect he just missed that/did not update his local mp-wp, that's all
asciilifeform: hm then moar interesting.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 12:21:25 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930405 << his comment box eats less-than/greater-than signs as 'unclosed htm tags'. which i also observed on mircea_popescu's www, i think it is ancient wp bug (of the 'no one wants to fix' sort, it'd require a 2-pass parser)
diana_coman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930437 - no, it was a proper link, proper html; hence the bug re version of php, solved by danielpbarron and in hanbot's vpatch etc.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-british-medical-journal-sends-its-scienticians-to-the-internet-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - British Medical Journal Sends Its Scienticians To The Internet. Adnotated.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-breast-implants-and-suicide-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Breast Implants and Suicide. Adnotated.
asciilifeform: even the ~reddit~ people got this right, iirc. in '07, no less.
asciilifeform if were writing a new blogotron, would have the comment box eat same syntax as here, with the square brackets. who the hell needs raw htm in comments other than for linkage.
mircea_popescu: yes well, i just looked at this room, it dun have a "breathe" sign
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: imho then comment box oughta have a notation e.g. 'dun fughet to &lt &gt' etc
mircea_popescu: im not re-debugging this, spent a day year-or-so ago on it, i expect the resuklts to be in the mp-wp tree!
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, some installs incorectly config'd (ancient ?) eat a tags
mircea_popescu: i dunno that it's a bug, just don't leave < floating around.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 10:25:30 diana_coman: do you still have the bug re html in comments perhaps?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930405 << his comment box eats less-than/greater-than signs as 'unclosed htm tags'. which i also observed on mircea_popescu's www, i think it is ancient wp bug (of the 'no one wants to fix' sort, it'd require a 2-pass parser)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 05:19:48 mircea_popescu: i don't intend to negrate him, as things stand, so you're more than welcome to explore wonderful world detailed in the further paragraphs of that comment.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930301 << entirely possible that fella comes back to life and walks in with genesis of bot, vpatch viewer, cleaned-up vdiffism, etc. and i'ma be pleasantly surprised. but would not bet money or hold breath to wait for it.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 05:37:59 spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930228 <-- until I get proper patches published, here's an idea: 1. abolish "ping-thread" from ircbot; 2. instead, set up a ping handler for the bot, and have it respond with pong; this has the disadvantage that there's no more lag tracking, but it's simpler. proof-of-concept patch: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LohMF/?raw=true
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930317 << this is The Right Thing (it dun need 'latency measurer' or any of that!) but only ~half~ . rip out the cl-irc thing.
snsabot: Logged on 2018-10-25 15:10:38 asciilifeform: when you add compatibility spackle, serious reader is not saved from reading the thing you spackled over -- on the contrary nao he has to read the ~original~ rubbish ~plus~ your spackle, however much it weighs.
asciilifeform: nao they're stuck with http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-10-25#1866191
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think trinque & ben also walked in with this, given as they used a heathen 'cl-irc' lib for some reason (thinking, i suspect, 'irc, grrr, gnarly to implement' )
asciilifeform: ftr asciilifeform walked into the 'go make bot' thing also suffering under the notion that bot is titanic problem that takes year of work . but imho this aint so.
mircea_popescu: wouldn't that read "motherfucker, i have no fucking idea what the fuck i wrote in here, was i drunk or what, it's illisible!"
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 05:20:54 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930233 << i dun really get what this is about, but anyways.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930302 << i got distinct impression that trinque is ripping own hair out from grrr re bugs in the (quite gnarly, i think was written in n00b yrs) cl bot
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930260 << funnily enuff, not long before reading these words, asciilifeform was using an actual, physical ratchet... which... broke. and nao turns 2ways.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 12:19:27 asciilifeform: imho would be 9000x better to simply steal the technique and port to e.g. cmucl .
asciilifeform: spyked: the tricky bit re 'steal the ultralight threads' is that in order for it to work, you more or less have to have same degree of 'fascism' as in actual erlang, i.e. can't have shared memory, easily-mutable variables, all the other knobs that make 'earthling' threads 'heavy'
asciilifeform: or for that matter , the function calls. e.g. #'start-ring/2 . dafuq, if it's a sexpr, it ~knows already~ that it needs the 'start-ring' that eats 2 args , not 1, not 3, not 17
asciilifeform: ... their coad example. observe how yes they added paren, but... with various infixisms somehow still preserved and freely intermixed ?!!
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 05:56:34 spyked: upstack re erlang: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930095 <-- imho doesn't sound bad at all, given that e.g. feedbot threads communicate exactly through this type of message queue. meanwhile, I notice that there's a "lisp-flavoured erlang" dialect on teh interwebz, but no idea if worth looking into it
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930335 << this find is so monumentally terrible, that it is worth preserving in amber. ( and not on acct of the shithub, roundedcornerism, and misc. redditisms, but strictly from pov of the proggy per se . ) behold :
billymg: re: blog work, i'm about to head out for the weekend, back early next week. i'll be able to bang out some more test coverage based on mircea_popescu's spec on the trip and put together a status/roadmap post when i get back
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: ty
diana_coman: do you still have the bug re html in comments perhaps?
diana_coman: feedbot is extremely useful to track all the comments + posts, basically I switched all to it and it's working great so far; there was the deluge of the after-break stuff coming in today but it's not a big issue (and it didn't choke on it either so all good)
mircea_popescu: ahh, feedbot conveniently pointed to me diana_coman 's comment. this thing is so fucking useful, making me look like a cyborg