log☇︎
213100+ entries in 0.125s
danielpbarron: trinque, it's supposed to take a url to the ascii armored key right?
mircea_popescu: somehow fake news fails to mention THIS WOULD BE THE FIRST US BUDGET SINCE FUCKING REAGAN.
mircea_popescu: of course it's also 2x the expenditure on "science", or "environment" crap... so whatevs.
mircea_popescu: that's about 2% of the federal budget, ie barely a ripple.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, trump wants 54 bn cut off "most federal agencies", ie the libertard state.
trinque: for teh benefit of n00bs
deedbot: Provide the full 40 character key fingerprint without spaces or dashes.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/heUlU/?raw=true
asciilifeform writing draft trb-i spec
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/uhf-the-film/ << Trilema - UHF (the film)
trinque: he registered by short key ID; I'll be disallowing that
trinque: yeah, that should not be using short key ID
mircea_popescu: i think this just got uploaded though ?
trinque: do we know a full fingerprint for that nick?
trinque: there are a handful of those
trinque: that has to be from the ancient db where things were done by key ID
asciilifeform: if anvil drops on my head tonight, imho there is enough in today's log to reconstitute the recipe.
mircea_popescu: this is one of those things that's not time-factored.
asciilifeform: (perhaps somebody will beat me to it, also good)
asciilifeform: could take a day or 2.
asciilifeform: i'ma go into the mathematical pit and properly formalize the recipe.
asciilifeform: (and if a miner issues moar tickets than he has plane seats -- it becomes known)
asciilifeform: ~binding~ tickets.
asciilifeform: aha. let'em sell tickets. that can be resold at markup.
mircea_popescu: it's almost as good as "you can't tell who sent who what"
mircea_popescu: anyway. taking away the miner choice wrt to what transactions are included would be a major step forward, goes on the list.
asciilifeform: though on second thought this algo is, from certain angle, ancient, it is how everything from plane tickets, concert tickets, gladiatorial match tickets, have always been sold
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: eh the boojum'll turn up. it is not given to ~anybody to invent 2 nice algos...
asciilifeform: (if there is a shortage of casks coming to me from upstream -- i raise my price for downstream. etc)
asciilifeform: would be pretty smooth 'plane tickets' market, imho.
asciilifeform: incidentally each level of the pyramid could automagically price the casks he issues.
mircea_popescu: this nut, always with the doubling down.
asciilifeform: i challenge the good folx here to find the lethal boojum in this algo. because it almost seems workable.
asciilifeform: and at the same time grade nodes by degree of promise-keeping, as described by mircea_popescu .
asciilifeform: with this algo, you can in fact market access to a miner. and n levels out.
asciilifeform: scheme pictured above does suffer from the 'no canned tx' headache. but it does solve the 'miner eats 100% of cake, the rest -- do laundry' thing.
mircea_popescu: way of teh world.
mircea_popescu: nodes live and die by their promises ; miners live and die by their mining.
asciilifeform: (i.e. the inner cask)
asciilifeform: the terminal sig can belong to a node, rather than a miner, if miners prove resistant to signing anything
mircea_popescu: the nodes are the oracles.
mircea_popescu: they go running the streets finding an acceptable one.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if he wants to make promises -- they gotta be opposable
mircea_popescu: mno, miner ifnormally tells his nodes he wants txn ; much like lord of manner tells women of the house he wants a girl added.
asciilifeform: h1 is the sig of 1st hop from miner; h2 - second; etc.
mircea_popescu: no reason miner would make this opposable.
asciilifeform: to rewrite formally, a cask is a C = sig_h1(sig_h2(sig_h3(.....sig_m('i'll mine a tx for q btc/kb...'))); tx author signs, author_sig(my_tx + C)
asciilifeform: 2 ) the miner-and-node fee is cut up according to the promised scheme.
asciilifeform: when he mines it : 1) all of the participants know whether he has kept his promise; and whether each level of pyramid has kept its promise;
asciilifeform: the mature tx resulting from this process, makes its way back upstream to the miner.
asciilifeform: at the bottom of the pyramid, a tx author requests a cask from a node, and fills it (assigns his node-and-miner fee to the caskchain specified by the hash he was given.)
asciilifeform: these in turn issue casks. and pass'em on downstream.
asciilifeform: here is how it'd work, roughly. a miner generates rsa-signed messages , occasionally, let's call'em 'empty casks'. a cask consists of a declaration, 'i'll include a tx within N blocks, i promise, for Q btc/kByte; and oh, here's a nonce.' the casks are distributed to the next level of nodes away from the miner ;
a111: Logged on 2017-02-27 21:41 asciilifeform: actually i know an algo that does this. will post it later, if it isn't obvious to mircea_popescu et al after a few minutes' thought.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-27 22:07 mircea_popescu: now, the historical solutionb to the problem, as well as perhaps a workable solution here, is the intrinsic oracle. if user relays txn to a node WHO MAKES A PROMISE (such as for instance "the txn will be included before block n" ?) then the nodes can be scored by their oracle value ("what he said turned out true!) and suddenly you have a more meaningful node market.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-27#1619483 << funnily enough , this is what i had sketched out when i mentioned http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-27#1619409 ☝︎☝︎
asciilifeform: yes, new restaurant -- has to lure folx in
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 23:17 mircea_popescu: if it were the case you had to pay 2 bux to transact in 2011, bitcoin'd have never exiosted
mircea_popescu: also restaurants hire, you hear me, HIRE schmucks to sit down.
asciilifeform: it is -ev to have any (aside from 'loyalty points' chumps and similar)
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: ty fxd
asciilifeform: but if you could fly anywhere for 0 money, supposing your were willing to do it on some unknown date up to month in the future -- quite a few folx would
mircea_popescu: that if you wait long enough eventually an airplane will fall into your yard does not make airplanes a free product outside of the airplane market.
mircea_popescu: thats the cost of market usage. i can do it when i want.
mircea_popescu: this happens ; and that it happens proves little.
asciilifeform: it is possible that the planets simply aligned for me, the gods smiled, every single time.
asciilifeform: now, granted, this was not an industrial-grade survey.
asciilifeform: and i did not have to suck anything behind the curtain...
asciilifeform: i do not know for sure. but i have send personally some 0fee tx, and -- somewhat to my surprise -- they got mined
mircea_popescu: why, because they gotta registger their transactions with you ?
mircea_popescu: how do you know they're 0 fee ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my puzzlement is re the continued existence of 0fee in conjunction with 'blocks are crowded.' can you picture a city where trains are full to bursting point, but they continue letting a third of the passengers in for free ?!
asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu nails it, the block subsidy makes it largely uninteresting to bother with squeezing the most tx fee from every available byte of ullage in block
mircea_popescu: and moreover, bitcoin tx is absolutely a seller-s market, definition item.
mircea_popescu: if you drew that conclusion from that premise we'd correctly identify you as an engineer martian.
asciilifeform: ( bottling it was , with tech of the period, -ev )
asciilifeform: the way i see the empty blocks, and mass of 0fee tx, is that it resembles the old days of petro drilling , when natural gas was flared off
asciilifeform: (if i landed, a martian, on earth, and found that almost all beer is given out for free and with 0 strings attached - i would infer that beer is a type of industrial waste..)
mircea_popescu: they're markets alright. the fact that a block subsidy covers 80% or so of the value of a block is the dispositive factor ; and it disposes.
mircea_popescu: there's a lot of cunt, beer, tv etc given away for free every day ; doesn't make these not markets.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-27 20:16 asciilifeform: it ~failed to materialize. the continued existence of 0fee tx, anywhere, ever, is proof.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-27#1619312 << this is rank nonsense. ☝︎
asciilifeform: wasn't referring to the d00d with the cock ring, but to 'i have control of an addr with btc in it, and willing to pay the market rate fee, mine my tx' arbitrary martian.
mircea_popescu: civilian role is polishing the silverware not judging the ceiling paintings.
mircea_popescu: but to be clear - if you are "civilian" you shouldn't be speaking.
mircea_popescu: nobody you don;t know is your friend, wtf globalism bs is this.
mircea_popescu: but yes, all metaeconomic motivation. i wouldn't call it ccountereconomic. much like me treating the whores well in the 90s contrary to male ideology of the time was not countereconomic.
asciilifeform: aha. and -- if you are 'civilian' -- most of these folx are decidedly NOT 'your friends'
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-27#1619482 << right now, keeping a node is -ev for almost everyone who could be doing it. only oddballs with countereconomic motivation of one kind or another (e.g., trb experimenters) , plus miners themselves, plus serious txers ( e.g., mircea_popescu ) have a desire to do it. there are not so many of these. it is rather like relying on entirely on coprophagics for your sewage disposal needs. ☝︎
trinque: nowhere to be found!!11
mircea_popescu: you mean the cock thing ? nah, part of the sjw uniform.
mircea_popescu: in other news, https://media.8ch.net/file_store/b2dedbb82ca691f8f645b2ce243853a6438ce7bbddb6c67d095da7104953cbc0.jpg << why do redditard dwellings ALWAYS look like the same fucking homeless shelter, cheap stuffing all over the floor etc ?
asciilifeform: incidentally it'd also test trinque's 'miners out in the open' thing. miner who comes out of the curtains, could collect 100% of the fee, rather than what relays left behind
a111: Logged on 2017-02-27 21:53 trinque: asciilifeform appears to be bending over backwards trying to get people paid to relay txn
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-27#1619455 << to relay SUCCESSFULLY, trinque . (not to /dev/null) ☝︎
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the repeal or replacement ?
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/02/trump-issues-ultimatum-to-gop-obamacare-must-die-before-tax-reform/ << Qntra - Trump Issues Ultimatum To GOP: Obamacare Must Die Before Tax Reform
mircea_popescu: it is the format i expect the market to take once block subsidy drops enough, which is to say in 2 to 3 halvings.
mircea_popescu: in this scheme, a node would only relay a txn to another node if that other node promised it MORE than what it in turn had promised the user.