204400+ entries in 0.119s
mircea_popescu: technically speaking all land on earth is more raft
than boat.
mircea_popescu: it's not however more
to fix one or
two of
them ; and if
this work can be pooled
then a complete system becomes quite feasible.
mircea_popescu: it's more
than what any sane mind can do,
to fix ALL
THE ONES HE NEEDS.
mircea_popescu: phf
that's kinda how/why we're stuck maintaining
the world. gotta do
the purges once and share.
this "one man against horde of rats" is why people don't have sane
tools
today.
diana_coman: trouble is
that unless
the kick out is intrinsic, simply a machine function
mircea_popescu: "come see
the violence inherent in
the glub glub glub!"
diana_coman: I read
there "kick him out" for "exposing"
mircea_popescu: i don't need five minutes
to expose a bad collegiate paper, what's
the exposure do ?
diana_coman: so you expose 1 and
then 10 and
then 100 and so what; infinite points are on
their side
diana_coman: "you can expose him in 5 minutes" is not enough and moreover it is in favour of
the idiots simply because ..mass
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform essentially, "no one will" holds for as long as
there's an imaginary fixed point
to hang it of -- actual management in
this case. what happens once obama is in charge of hiring ? why, one CAN!! sudden;y get job by pretending
to know, and ONLY by pretending. no nsa for oyu!
phf: right, so you grok
the method
phf: asciilifeform: i actually
tried replacing my asdf with asdf1 and
the failure is
that of
thousand cuts. small, completely inconsequential additions
to asdf file or some pointless uiop:foo-bar somewhere deep in code. some asdf files have hardcoded #-asdf3(error "asdf3 required") but
then still work, etc.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 15:27 diana_coman: asciilifeform,
the "appeal" from an idiot perspective is "it's popular" ;
that means
that at some point (late, but anyways)
they WILL find it appealing
phf: yeah, i was about
to *, but i keep doing
this, where i
type equivalent sounding words all over
the place
phf: (speaking of common lisp. asdf
the system dependency
tool
turned from 30k in version 1 into a asdf/uiop 900k monster in version 2. in a systemd move
took over most of
the compatability packages and is now present ~in every single lisp distribution~. with
the did accomplished, Fare posts
the following
http://fare.livejournal.com/188429.html )
mircea_popescu: this is
trivially
true and directly verified with eg irc, or gpg, or any other item we deigned
to use.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform
technically speaking
this is universally guaranteed. as per
the ancient "idiot -- can not have idea ; mp saying x and idiot saying x are not
the same",
the mere fact of your using it enacts it as a ~substantially~ different item
than what
they use.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, urgh, I'd rather ask: how I can PREVENT
this being done
mircea_popescu: consider : running a destornillador comes out of
the box ; skating - nope.
mircea_popescu: incidentally,
the fact
that people can not ~naturally~ drive on ice is sufficient case study
to illustrate just how poor
the human brain is at handling delayed backfeed.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, ~everything has been sitting
there since ages until someone comes and does something useful (for him) with it and
THEN, (as in:
too late) everybody starts doing something with it hence popular etc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform
this is sadly a form of special pleading. consider
the
tribe of americans in
the nation of africa with
the deformed heads / elongated necks / etc.
phf: asciilifeform: it's
too big of an item, but ~they still
totally do~ you just need
to go
to burning man. plenty of people are "i build art for
the big burn, can handle big machines"
mircea_popescu: ever fucking
tried firing one of
those shits indoors ? just for lulz ?
mircea_popescu: holy shit, purported usage of weapons IN EXACT CONTRADICTION
TO
THEIR UTILITY is a holywood standard
today!
mircea_popescu: what, you
think black and decker power
tools hanging from power cords around
the neck could NEVER become a "music industry" standard ?
mircea_popescu: there's no utility involved. suburban ustard wears item because of ~how it makes her feel~
to ~be seen~ as ~being one of
the~ rather
than any use.
☟︎ phf: anything can have a pose. if it becomes so
that "no real hacker", you're going
to have plenty of "real hackers" at ada hackathons wearing "ada: make you hack better, bitch"
tshirts
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform
the problem is one of labels not one of contents. you keep
thinking in utility
terms.
diana_coman: anything you do and works and becomes useful WILL encounter
the mass of idiots jumping on it
mircea_popescu: the way we do
things has no appeal except
to serve
the way we
think. yet, ape-ing is constant. stealing bits of
trilema is like chuka raiding rtg in siberia, yet chukas do raid. on it goes.
diana_coman: asciilifeform,
the "appeal" from an idiot perspective is "it's popular" ;
that means
that at some point (late, but anyways)
they WILL find it appealing
☟︎ mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no meaning involved in
the affairs of
the subhuman.
mircea_popescu: understand,
there's dorks on
tardstalk
TODAY going "oh, mp keeps saying
things and
they keep not happening."
diana_coman: but essentially it is so far
the only sort of approach
that stands a chance against
the mass of idiots basically; still a field of study for me re actual deployment, but anyways
phf: fwiw ada is a harsh mistress is an illusion. if it were
to become fashionable
to write ada among
the hacker news crowd,
there will be rapid attempts at modernization. common lisp went
through
that process
mircea_popescu: which is why 2012 btc dev
team
thinks mp is being eccentric and couldn't possibly ever get wiped.
mircea_popescu: and
that's just how
the code
trap works
too : it
takes a while for
the cost of shitty practices
to accrue
to
the point where it exceeds
the cost of having used alternative practices.
diana_coman: certainly more fundamental; I
talked about code because I write code, not because
the issue is not clearly visible otherwise
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite exactly,
these systems with delayed backfeed are generally beyond
the ability of
the common human brain
to administer.
mircea_popescu: also consider how methyl alcohol poisoning works (you ever wondered how
the rfuck is it possible
this STILL occurs
today ?) :
there's a sudden
transition from dosing which
the body absorbs without signal
to dose wich renders one blind.
the animal, without exception, ends up with a source of methyl alcohol. drinks some, is ok. drinks some more
tomorrow, is ok.
then goes
to wedding/party/is depressed, drinks a lot. is blind.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman
this is a problem more fundamental
than code. consider : well run us, relying on
the wealth amassed by people whose
toes
today's imbeciles aren't qualified
to kiss,
the carnegies and rockefellers and etc of
the golden age, readily allowed inept management
the APPEARANCE of working, at least initially. 1970s us still appeared like it has a future, notwithstanding it had all
the future of argentina. why ? because pi
a111: Logged on 2016-06-14 14:25 asciilifeform: did we ever do a 'postel's law not only considered harmful but a disaster of epic proportions, quite comparable
to leaded petrol'
thread ?
a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 13:27 asciilifeform: ada in particular is 'a harsh mistress', you can sit for 3 hrs and your
thing simply won't build, gcc won't eat it, and you gotta actually open
the book and grasp
the reason why, brute force knob-twiddling will get you 0 result.
diana_coman:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633736 <- I actually
think
that is a characteristic worth knowing how
to replicate in one's own programs: after all
the horrors I saw, I quite find it a bad
thing
that well done code
tends
to be basically
too forgiving on idiots
☝︎ mircea_popescu: "this is surgery among my
tribe" scarce consolation / legal defense.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 13:41 asciilifeform: but yes, you will do 2-3x
the work, subjectively, as when writing c proggy. but it is not ~wasted~ work, just as
the work of using v instead of 'git' etc. is not wasted.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 13:27 asciilifeform: ada in particular is 'a harsh mistress', you can sit for 3 hrs and your
thing simply won't build, gcc won't eat it, and you gotta actually open
the book and grasp
the reason why, brute force knob-twiddling will get you 0 result.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 13:20 asciilifeform: fwiw
the part i found most painful was
the 'access' (pointer) rules. generally you can't have a pointer unless you can demonstrate
that it can never dangle
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so what.
turkey was building
the first university when england was == mongolia.
mircea_popescu: the only worthy equiv in ro is
the one with
the hedgehog's hole which im sure i recounted.
BingoBoingo: Well I was going
to guess Liberia, but you said unsure about generators
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu>
this is gonna be more fun
than i had
thought. << Ecuador?
mircea_popescu: it's a point of fact microfibre feels softer, and
that's probably
that.
mircea_popescu: anyway,
the greater point here being
that
the last battle for sanity is being fought : after chem killind most everything ("ecoleather" destroyed leather industry, for instance, rayon/nylon murdered silk, fake news killed linen etc etc), cotton,
the last survival natural fiber is under attack.