asciilifeform: decimation: one very obvious way for it to fuck, and be noticed, is to simply fail

asciilifeform: but we don't have a mechanism of syncing n-bit counters with second resolution across a planet that ~doesn't~ operate at hitler's pleasure.

asciilifeform: sure

asciilifeform: i already know how to do that.

asciilifeform: i specified a problem. what is the point of saying 'no, let's solve this other trivial problem'

asciilifeform: again with the human eyes and hands.

asciilifeform: again with the sun and stars

asciilifeform: detecting an off clock requires another

asciilifeform: how?

asciilifeform: lol

asciilifeform: all ~100 of us ?

asciilifeform: or what that box he plugged into your wall is for

asciilifeform: and have no idea what a block is.

asciilifeform: for that matter, 'you' may be one of mircea_popescu's pogopregnated chixxx

asciilifeform: not like pogo has a screen, where it tells you that it is (or is not) receiving valid blocks

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: you won't know that you have segmented into a parallel universe

asciilifeform: eventually pogo drifts off into neverneverland

asciilifeform: say my isp makes all ntp queries chronically 3 minutes off into the past

asciilifeform: it's a cheap bullet with our name on it

asciilifeform: this is realistic, because nothing but pogo will seriously fail if this were done ☟︎

asciilifeform: where every single ntp query gets picked up by your isp and replaced.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: my concern was blackholing

asciilifeform: and their standard x86 turd boards.

asciilifeform: decimation: adding any hardware at all will raise the cost to where we no longer have anything over the phoundation.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al were contemplating a surrender to ntp even.

asciilifeform: right now i don't know how to help the pogo problem.

asciilifeform: i possibly have a scheme for this. but it won't help pogo, because this is no longer bitcoin

asciilifeform: to have the concept of difficulty, nodes only need to know that time has passed, using a timebase that 1) is independent variable from aggregate hash 2) is prohibitively expensive to manipulate

asciilifeform: if a certain constraint is loosenes

asciilifeform: my argument was that this apparently-unsolvable problem can be solved

asciilifeform: not from under the bed of the gurlz mircea_popescu picks up and pogopregnates ☟︎

asciilifeform: they sorta are.

asciilifeform: and it's game over.

asciilifeform: long enough at +/- 5m and we get >2h off

asciilifeform: because drift

asciilifeform: actually we do

asciilifeform: within any kind of serious accuracy

asciilifeform: because there is no other known way to do it

asciilifeform: in so far as you, i, and every other fella on the net wants to know 'what second' it is 'right now', we are dealing in usgtronics

asciilifeform: it cannot see the moon, or the stars

asciilifeform: pogo cannot see the sun!

asciilifeform: the sun is almost literally blinding decimation, making the problem look far easier than it actually is for us

asciilifeform: but say they lived underground, and could not.

asciilifeform: and feel its warmth

asciilifeform: because they can all see the sun

asciilifeform: !s martian bank

asciilifeform: that is, massively resistant to organized diddling

asciilifeform: just needs to be 'outside' to the same extent bitcoin is (or naively appears to be)

asciilifeform: decimation: 'outside of humanity' is a tall order. and not what anybody was asking for

asciilifeform: and i don't expect everyone to grasp it immediately

asciilifeform: this is a subtle point, granted

asciilifeform: *king

asciilifeform: it is fiat if i can't see the sun and rely on the kind to tell me

asciilifeform: (yes, decimation will teach you to tell epoch time within +/1 1000 by using the stars and moon. that does not change the essence of the fact that global epoch synchronized by machines is a fiat - specifically usg - creature)

asciilifeform: we haven't invented non-fiat time yet

asciilifeform: just as argentine peso was fiat when it was still worth real money

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it was always fiat time

asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.solrodar.1:0a8d0ab5914fc2d41371f84fe250e40f9eab92aab2afdf54f7774066895e50c5

asciilifeform: !rate solrodar 1 flow graphs

asciilifeform: (aka bitcoin use)

asciilifeform: to thwart 'financial terrorizm!!!1111'

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and if they decide that 'national s33k0000r1ty' requires a leap week ? ☟︎

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193979 << mircea_popescu misunderstood my point entirely. which was, that it is possible to have arbitrarily original ideas in, e.g., mathematics, while being certifiably worthless at 'making phriends and influencing people' ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: fair enough.

asciilifeform: solrodar: and how do you know that they are only used in keystore base class ?

asciilifeform: solrodar: your tool doesn't see virtual functions ?

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193951 << it's why they produce incompatible ones regularly. because no way to know if it happened or not yet, save for passage of time ☝︎

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193950 << i keep own time, and usg introduces leap second. now what ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193949 << virtually all of them do, however. whether ~i~ choose to run ntp or not does not change the fact that the bulk of the network (including - though i can only suspect! - the mining bulk) does. ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: ok

asciilifeform: would like a way of adjusting this

asciilifeform: where did the filter come from ?

asciilifeform: how did you even choose what to exclude ?

asciilifeform: gotta have those.

asciilifeform: in that tree.

asciilifeform: in *.cpp and *.h

asciilifeform: i want every token

asciilifeform: then entirely useless

asciilifeform: these are missing?!!!

asciilifeform: eheheheeh wat

asciilifeform: thank you for the effort, solrodar

asciilifeform: neat.

asciilifeform: solrodar: might wanna ask mircea_popescu if he will award the prize for this item, which is not what he asked for, before putting in serious effort

asciilifeform: but not only it, but a complete recipe whereby i can regenerate it.

asciilifeform: data.

asciilifeform: and so i'm not holding my breath waiting for it to get done by anybody.

asciilifeform: this is probably more than 1 btc worth of work

asciilifeform: i need a usable graph

asciilifeform: i don't need the garbage that comes out of codeviz or those other 3

asciilifeform: i can use that tool too, you know.

asciilifeform: because the tool is retarded

asciilifeform: there is room for this to be the case everywhere.

asciilifeform: and not half the page away.

asciilifeform: and other thing, if a node is a leaf of only one stem, it should be right next to it

asciilifeform: to maximize space for the arrows.

asciilifeform: or 5

asciilifeform: 31 degrees if need be

asciilifeform: idea is, to make the text sit down at whatever angle is needed

asciilifeform: wasn't the idea

asciilifeform: !up solrodar