log☇︎
19700+ entries in 0.143s
asciilifeform: previously i had nfi why he wouldn't simply pass on the goods as-is
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:55 asciilifeform: phf: i aint proposing to put the thing on ftp as-is.
phf: asciilifeform: it's clear now, i believe it changed drastically literally today, up until now i believe it was as i was made to understand it.
asciilifeform: i dun begrudge the year, even. proj moves in geological time, for entirely unrelated reasons
asciilifeform: right. hence 'i have made position clear, let's count from today'
asciilifeform: fwiw i have nfi what sorta danger could justify the 'yellowdots' phobia here, i'm stuck taking phf's word
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:30 asciilifeform: phf: if dump weighs TB and (apparently) after whole year phf still not eaten it, might make sense to pgp to asciilifeform . i'ma not post the raw docs and their yellowdots.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did revise to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881923 neh. ☝︎
asciilifeform: 'hey phf, canhaz pinout nao ?' 'busy this weekend, how about next month' 'hey phf, been 6 weeks, i have to bother but canhaz pinout?' 'i'm moving flats, ask again in 2k' 'hey phf...'
mircea_popescu: well, so in simple terms, is 'your response was essentially "i'm not making any promises, i'm going to dump the whole thing on the internet"' a factual claim or isn't it ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: apparently i have magical ability to say 9000 times something and not be understood
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to summarize : if phf decides to Do Right Thing and gpg to asciilifeform the goods, then i'ma eat'em and whatever public output will not reveal his informant.
asciilifeform: i dun expect to make any substantial movements on bolix front till march, at earliest .
asciilifeform: 'for year +' entirely aside, imho i've said enuff re subj to resolve any possible ambiguity re where stands currently.
mircea_popescu: so now. is the case as you publicly present it, "phf has been not helping for year +" or is the case as he publicly presents it, "i tried to help a year ago but granularity didn't match and then he went on a campaign of fuming about whisperers ''in general'' transparently in reference to the particuylar case and i was stuck sitting and listening to it."
asciilifeform: better man than i.
mircea_popescu: yes well i don't get drunk among open safes.
mircea_popescu: i dunno anyone puts food in one sober.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:58 phf: asciilifeform: when i communicated with you, in private, about the dump in the past, your response was essentially "i'm not making any promises, i'm going to dump the whole thing on the internet", i've attempted to communicate to you that further value can be extracted from that relationship, if you're patient. your reaction to that was to start talking about whisperers etc. and then you come back with "i wonder how you got your hands
mircea_popescu: and now im in the unenviable position of thinking about nonsense. look here asciilifeform : the man says http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881968 and what am i to do ? remember that you're one of the principal idiots who decided to run their pizarro process throgh a encryptospitball, and before that you came up with the brilliancy that was "secret clauses" in pizarro nearly got ben_vulpes beheaded. ☝︎
asciilifeform: i've actually gotten moar troof from ex-nsa people re nsa diddles, than from bolixologists !
asciilifeform: phf: i regret to insult phf . but try to appreciate asciilifeform's position: dug in the dirt since '07 and the only clues dug up were with not only no help from anyone, but in spite of vigorous stonewalling from entire 'komyooniti'
asciilifeform: and i have ~decade of eating erry scrap of docs that ever came to the surface.
mircea_popescu: in other trivia, i give you 70s hair! https://d1yokj200xz0mr.cloudfront.net/gfx/news/strelky.jpg
asciilifeform: ( all i got is some iron )
asciilifeform: i also dun have a treasure chest.
asciilifeform: currently i do not
asciilifeform: phf: i'm taking on faith, that you have an intel lead hangin' somewhere
phf: asciilifeform: wait, what? i said that _our_ approaches _both_ are _0_.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:55 phf: i took saeculum promises specifically to assist with republican work. i think that dumping this dump as is is short sighted, because the dump by weight is garbage, and will trivially identify all involved. i want to at least evaluate what's in it that can be of assistance to asciilifeform, an identification that became necessary only a week ago.
asciilifeform: phf: i'm willing to believe that you have > 0 , even. but how about some output , pleez ?
phf: asciilifeform: i have no issues with unfriendliness of your approach or it's secret busting nature. i'm trying different approach, and so far our success is identical in that it's 0. we're at a point where our mutual approaches can benefit, yet you deny me mine, periodically insulting it in creative ways.
asciilifeform: until ~then~ i will be left to wonder whether actually achieved anyffing, even if working cycle-accurate clone with somehow full src.
asciilifeform: and especially , deliberately unfriendly to whoever profits from the seekrederpery. in fact, i will know when my reversing has succeeded when a bolix collector somewhere at last eats his pistol because his $100k stash of irons is now worth == 8bit nintendo. ☟︎
asciilifeform: phf: i dun like to take word for it, no.
phf: asciilifeform: hence i said "but you won't take my word for it" yeah?
asciilifeform: phf: if i'm wrong, i'd very much like the hypothesis 'but if only phf had brought the goods' not to lay on the table re why wrong.
asciilifeform suspects that if this weren't the case, i'd be posting from a 32GB bolix already
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:29 phf: my approach to this is to find compromise, i've volunteered all the information i've volunteered so far. i'm making a point that whatever asciilifeform might need for his work i can communicate to him. is this approach not acceptable? it seems that i'm just being pressured into dumping a dump of unknown quality and state, that might or might not help
phf: mircea_popescu: i act out of character once, and it's to my disadvantage. i got the original point, i didn't at any point expect that there's a way to avoid it.
mircea_popescu: ie, not only do i have no use for some guy who's gonna publish whatever his mom finds "appropriate" ; but on 2nd pass i have no use for some guy fluffyponying it along.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'm still discussing the line i quoted, i'm not yet at current log.
mircea_popescu: what, if i hadn't said "you know, you can't propose whatever tards trump republican interest" that'd have ended up baked into precedent ? and what, i'm supposed to not notice this ? i notice.
mircea_popescu: now, as to me personally, i find your behaviour deeply offensive for the following reason : i do not believe you speak accidentally, you're much too meticulous and lengthily silent for that. the only reconstruction of today's discussion that stands my read is, "well, at first he tried line x, see if they're morons enoujgh to buy it ; that failed, regroupped to line y".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i kinda noticed as much.
phf: asciilifeform: if i followed your lead on this subject i would've had nothing. for all i know right now i still have nothing. i don't understand how you can't seem to connect that the answer to "how did you do it??" is in what i'm doing. if i'm not giving you anything, it's because i don't have it, or i don't know if i have it, which is something for me to evaluate.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 19:29 phf: my approach to this is to find compromise, i've volunteered all the information i've volunteered so far. i'm making a point that whatever asciilifeform might need for his work i can communicate to him. is this approach not acceptable? it seems that i'm just being pressured into dumping a dump of unknown quality and state, that might or might not help
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881922 << i suspect the approach is particularly chaffind to asciilifeform because childhood trauma, "older brother keeping the good chocolate to eat with his gf". but this aside, it is problematic because it very much smacks of usg-style "here's the conclusions of some measurements we're not publishing". ☝︎
asciilifeform: i aint a hotheaded fella, have patience. picture how e.g. mircea_popescu would react, if somebody promised him item 'next weekend' and then for 13 consecutive months 'next weekend' with no intermediate debug output.
mircea_popescu: well, i re-read this, lessee.
asciilifeform: i won't even touch it 'now' even if given, have full hands tryin' (and not with 100% success) to stick to ~own~ 'pick date'
asciilifeform: phf: i aint even asking 'gimme nao', but why not pick a date .
asciilifeform: phf: what am i missing ?
asciilifeform: phf: relax, i aint in hurry. but i'd ~really~ like not to have to have same thead yr from nao.
phf: how much of this is genuine interest to replicate the damn thing and how much of this is just a blind "i want, now now now"?
asciilifeform: granted i dun need 36xx crapola for anyffin. but is it all clearly labeled as such ?
asciilifeform: for all you know, the thing is built such that if i make clone 1mm shorter, capacitance changes and it dungo. my board actually has 'blue wires' ! and caps soldered by hand straddling ~two~ socketed PALs, and other wonders.
phf: there's no "docs", it's not some kind of mother lode of all things bolix. fwiw i went into as excited and with the same expectations you're imagining right now. there was a set of printed papers that primarily existed in pre-ivory days. they are mostly related to e.g. mechanical layout of the boards (the bulk of stuff was e.g. machining parameters of motherboards and cases, something i didn't even touch)
asciilifeform: i'm even inclined to believe when phf says 'i'm gathering intel, from skittish source'. but there comes a time to act on the intel.
asciilifeform: what then should i understand as the 'operation' phf fears 'fuck up' by giving up docs ?
asciilifeform: phf: i'm inclined to believe
phf: i've spent significant amount of time in the snap4 also, looking particularly at the ns bug, i've played with the relevant instruction. it's not missing, it's apparently not buggy either, there's nothing to publish. throttling the emu seems to eliminate it though
asciilifeform: phf: i was under impression that there were missing instructions
asciilifeform: who said i even want to speed it up.
asciilifeform: i dun have src of 'mario', yet still runs 100% in nintendo emu
asciilifeform: ( i.e. to bake a cycle-accurate copy of e.g. 'xl' )
asciilifeform: phf: i'ma defo refer to the emulator when baking fpga clone, it has plenty of useful info re the instruction set
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 16:48 phf: well, if we don't, i'll see if i can get an unlock through corporate channels, and just use it as a one off machine
phf: asciilifeform: i actually remember that one, but you'll have to trust me that my assumption on reading this was that you had debugging scaffolding in order to observe its operation, because reading layers of bolix<-alpha<-x86 code is not particularly enlightening. you've since acquired the source and clearly opted for electron microscope route.
asciilifeform: phf: thus far i cannot comment on your methods, given that they do not apparently include publishing anyffing bolix-related openly.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-08 23:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did describe earlier, having concluded a few yrs ago that it is cheaper, easier, moar pleasant, to cut appart 'snap4' emulator (i have a pc build here ~with debug symbols~, comes apart in ida nicely) than to suffer with nitric acid and electron microscope
phf: i don't know when i've learned about the source, it's on public github, i don't know if i've even seen you mention your snap4 work, or at which point i've forgotten it.
asciilifeform: but i'd like to see some of the promised dirt..
asciilifeform: i dun have anyffing against phf , as such. i even forgave him the ~year of life i burned on cutting 'snap4' apart in 'ida' while phf knew where the sores was.
phf: asciilifeform: you're reading selectively. _i_ was expecting to see dirt yr+ ago, there was none. it was totally a waste of work
phf: asciilifeform: for fucks sake, this whole argument started with me basically going "i'm going to go over all that i have and find bits that are relevant to your current work"
asciilifeform: cuz from earlier line i am forming the impression that not
asciilifeform: and i'd like to answer the larger q of whether phf even wants to see asciilifeform's thrust succeed.
asciilifeform: phf: can haz hard bound for when i see anyffing ? cuz it was 'next weekend' 1yr+ ago.
phf: asciilifeform: last year i made a bunch of scans, that were almost entirely duds, you were as insistent on a release as you are now. this would've prevented this year's scans, that are potentially more relevant to your work.
asciilifeform: consider how many folx previously went like phf, 'i'ma do it under me pillow lest it fuck up operation'
phf: asciilifeform: there's this general position that what you're doing, you're doing to get yoursefl a running bolix clone, where's i'm just fucking around, which is bullshit. i'm doing the same thing, towards the same goals. it's not presently clear who's more successful. you basically want me to unilaterally fuck up my entire operation, because ~last week~ you bought a macivory.
asciilifeform: nao, if phf thinks that asciilifeform cracking the case ~at all~ will 'unmask' phf's informant, this is a problem. chiefly for phf's informant, because i ~will~ rape bolix, whether anyone helps or not ☟︎
asciilifeform: i'm at the point in the affair where i got specific physical q's , the answers to which will enable nondestructive probing of the handful of samples i got.
asciilifeform: i proposed gpg of raw material to asciilifeform .
phf: asciilifeform: i don't know what you're proposing, because you haven't proposed anything. i've proposed that i go through the dump, find all the relevant bits to your project, and communicate them to you. this is apparently unacceptable
mircea_popescu: i don't even care, past the (i'd have thought obvious) point whereby specific lines of argument simply can't be brought.
asciilifeform: if phf asks 'ok, but dun post the yellowdotted jpegs' i won't
asciilifeform: phf: i aint in particular hurry ( possibly unlike mircea_popescu , who wants to emphasize the imho important larger point ). i won't even have time to properly touch the thing until finished ffa. but plz consider what i suggested today.
phf: on it?" is this not fucking contradictory. and now i'm basically in a position, where from your demands and impatience i'm presented with a choice "either do this or you're out"
phf: asciilifeform: when i communicated with you, in private, about the dump in the past, your response was essentially "i'm not making any promises, i'm going to dump the whole thing on the internet", i've attempted to communicate to you that further value can be extracted from that relationship, if you're patient. your reaction to that was to start talking about whisperers etc. and then you come back with "i wonder how you got your hands ☟︎
asciilifeform: i do not know if phf's treasure chest could've spared me sending for the whole box, but it's conceivable
asciilifeform: phf: and wasn't 'week ago', but year + 3mo ago, when i took delivery of the 2 raw ivories. ☟︎
asciilifeform: phf: i aint proposing to put the thing on ftp as-is. ☟︎
phf: i took saeculum promises specifically to assist with republican work. i think that dumping this dump as is is short sighted, because the dump by weight is garbage, and will trivially identify all involved. i want to at least evaluate what's in it that can be of assistance to asciilifeform, an identification that became necessary only a week ago. ☟︎
asciilifeform: phf: i for one have nfi how being in the position of schneier, sitting on the snowden stash, dun bother you any
asciilifeform: errything i need is theoretically already in that beige box on the dissection table. if i get same thing from 'anon informant', will make affair go faster, to same output.
asciilifeform: phf: i dun need to post 'the dump' with the bloody yellow dots.
phf: i don't know how you missed my previous sentence, none of these people have "the dump", because there's no dump outside of the work i did.
asciilifeform: for all anybody knows, i caught mallery and connected him to 220v and he spat it out