log☇︎
160700+ entries in 0.097s
asciilifeform: trinque: might i persuade you to write the algo out ? in longhand
trinque: and as I describe things the gossipdnet now has, if it wants, a history of what its seen, and a way to refer to it.
trinque: and tomorrow you ask and it says new hash, and maybe even gives you the hashed item, how nice
trinque: yes. my station told you that wot.deedbot.org/arbitrarystringforsakeofargument.html means 19a66977545747f383eccd6f570270a77cd620aa011651c94e777992ee63b08a30052eff4045e672c2387ebfbd18509e5c29a1a247fadcfebf3828dc02789b25
asciilifeform: just like http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DC02BECF037180105CA079586B51212366B61A8CD3BB5992FD2F90CF9FC7D6C5 , a d00d whose key is unbroken, the page can have potentially very different output the ~next~ time you read it
asciilifeform: just same as with the phuctor example
asciilifeform: the only meaningful way to represent it is by listing the input operands which produced it ( in this case, the fp arg )
asciilifeform: trinque: the thing behind that url is ephemeral by nature.
asciilifeform: but tomorrow could be something else, if the ratings change
asciilifeform: consider, for sake of argument, curl http://wot.deedbot.org/29F5BC967632415AB9836DB63E452A7A2A00DEC1.html | sha512sum today gives me 19a66977545747f383eccd6f570270a77cd620aa011651c94e777992ee63b08a30052eff4045e672c2387ebfbd18509e5c29a1a247fadcfebf3828dc02789b25
trinque: why do you wish to express querying in terms of a hypertext interface at all?
asciilifeform: trinque: you're mixing layers. basic mechanics of gossiptron is not in dispute, q was re how to query a db by more than 1 possible index col
trinque: you belch out facts, rest of the world can either hear you or not, can either confirm you said them or not. or wtf was gossipd again?
trinque: your aliases for items which identify membership of the item in some set *are themselves items which your station publishes, individually*
asciilifeform: it fails because -- in the particular example i gave -- it ain't 1:1
trinque: and why my reader, being able to resolve hashes of items ~or not~ based on what my station knows, and peer stations tell me.
trinque: you're going to have to point out to me where link-by-hash fails then
asciilifeform: i'd like to see it solved.
asciilifeform: without procrustation this time
asciilifeform: ahahahahaha procrustes thx but no thx, plz play again
trinque: no multiple columns; one hash and it's upon the reader to be able to find the item or not.
asciilifeform: phuctor deals in TWO types of hash
asciilifeform: to reformulate : how do i refer to an index into a db that is indexable by more than one column ?
trinque: it looks like the hash of an item, and whatever thing is showing me logs either knows what it is, or doesn't
trinque: folks can now ask me whether I have a particular hash, but can only know you meant it to mean "mahmood-anal-perforation-7" if they know you, or if you signed the fact that it is
asciilifeform: forget the pushing variant. i want to put a handle on a particular pgpkey or pgpfp into the l0gz. what does that look like ?
trinque: my station hears, can ask you for the goods.
trinque: lets say it's phuctored again. your station broadcasts to whoever it cares to tell, a particular identifier unique within your station now points to a new hash.
asciilifeform: how would you convert this to trinque-addressing scheme without losing functionality ?
asciilifeform: let's take http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DDDE667282B355D21D9F0E3505442E332AB082F487BFFC440034D11D636FD6A7 , well-known lulzgem.
trinque: there was a very recent thread re: this
trinque: hypertext's an inert datastructure, gives you a graph to crawl over while reading. why's it gotta be an interactive program aside that usecase?
asciilifeform: trinque: lemme confess to you the context : i recently took a break from $usual to write an ada www server, and quickly barfed. because thought 'and what, it also gotta handle POSTs, and quickly becomes asinine mess of horror'
trinque: so yes, if wot.deedbot.org were on gossipd it'd eat by bot attached to particular station, maybe redundant somehow, but leaving that aside, this contemplated DHT could still make particular states of the thing redundant past the the death of trinque
asciilifeform: ( this is not necessarily a bad idea, but i'd like to hear moar re how )
trinque: where does hypertext come into that, except "SOP"
trinque: are we really trying to preserve every idiotic misuse of hypertext here? ☟︎
asciilifeform: describe plox the algo
asciilifeform: substrings, trinque -- what happens when i type 'anything you're using as a search index can exist' string into your search ?
asciilifeform: how's that work ?
trinque: even the search
asciilifeform: see the 'phuctor as a static www' thread
asciilifeform: trinque: 'www server should serve statics' is great until you realize that you use phf's search box every day and it's a dynamicism
asciilifeform: kad did this with traditional 'time to live' but that is promisetronic ultimately
trinque: and yes would kill the "dynamic web" thing which, what the fuck, it's hypertext not a program, even if a program generated the hypertext.
asciilifeform: the tricky bit is how to propagate these without ending up with 'no individual node gives anything to allcomers, yes, but allcomer can ring the whole world as a bell and it never stops'
asciilifeform: ( i use one of these ~daily, 'kademlia' )
trinque: yessir, dht atop what you're talking about would be quite robust to this whole "hurr durr took down the website FBI logo srs"
asciilifeform: aa in the sense of dht
trinque: how the p2p networks, gnutella et al, worked, but routed over gossipd wotnet
asciilifeform: it goes down, the answer to your query of its pubkey is mu until goes back up, neh
asciilifeform: then as trinque said.
trinque: but then that station goes down and I wanted an item from it; then what?
trinque: eh not sold on addressing being the thing; addressing identifies who I asked
asciilifeform: ah there.
asciilifeform: i thought it was obvious Right Thing
trinque: which yes means every single update to ds index page has to flow through someone you know gossiptronically for you to know about it
asciilifeform: and makes poor use of not only bandwidth but the frontbrain which is sitting right there.
trinque: peers may even say "here's what I think dailysturmer is" and you go pick a hash to use
trinque: but "I want the page with hash H"
asciilifeform: and the problem has applications elsewhere ( dictating rsa keys over voice etc )
asciilifeform: trinque: because it is very difficult to murder with no trace a thing to which all of the apparent alternatives are spike cones.
trinque: hypertext on gossipd may sensibly *lack* the notion of "website" entirely. ☟︎
trinque: why make dns better rather than murder leaving no trace?
ben_vulpes: what as if there are zero with spellable names gtfo ☟︎
asciilifeform: ever done this over a noisy radio ( or shitphone ) all day ?
trinque: "fifty two" "twenty eight" "two hundred seven" "five" ??
asciilifeform: and let's say you wanted to speak it
trinque: bookmark the digits with a name
asciilifeform: what will you suggest to the iphonist ? 'fuck off and go sit on a road cone' ?
trinque: asciilifeform: kids do more work installing cracked games and so on than it is to put something in hosts file ☟︎
asciilifeform: with the attendant unearned rents for derps.
asciilifeform: pov is from area denial op ( kill dns as a thing perceived to be required by the cattle ) rather than 'for republic', was what i thought
mircea_popescu: there is no way to escape this, whoseover goes for many is our enemy and i shall personally knife his rabbits.
asciilifeform: trinque: yer comparing unlikes. d00d with same phone # for 50 yrs != shouting to crowd containing entire iq bellcurve and going for max % who remember when they get home
trinque: can even shake the thing like a monkey if you didn't mean it!
trinque: without anything not attached to a single button press on rectangular glass
mircea_popescu: forget pantsuits trying to take the url out of the browser. apparently they convinced the herd to live without numbers ?
mircea_popescu: apparently it's a lost technology, this, the NUMBER
asciilifeform: mnemonism is a thing. 200+yrs state of art.
trinque: old farts still manage to key in the phone number to call AM radio
asciilifeform: to a crowded train, or whatever.
mircea_popescu: why not just REMEMBER 123.45 and put that in.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: contemplated scenario is d00d shouting propaganda, go to joepunishesmaryslowlywithabroomstickinaconcerthall.com and that turns into 123.45.67.89 etc
mircea_popescu: anyway, im going to meet mah local lawyers over lunch about potential lulz, so bbl.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform my point was that by the time they typed in 83 the rest of the "unmemorizable address" is already filled in. ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-30 21:57 mircea_popescu: the only reasonable move for safeguarding earth's future, is to keep you lot as far as feasible from any buttons that are connected to anything.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is there to predict ? that old women are stupid ? that the children they raise http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-30#1706699 ? ☝︎
mircea_popescu: and somehow nobody picked up the pantsuited abominations of THAT period and whipped them to death to appease the dust bowl dust gods.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 19:12 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1708972 <<< none of them even knows how to find a browser without autocomplete.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1709009 << so you make a mnemonizer that fits on propaganda pamphlet, wat. gotta separate 'is problem worth solving' from the 'how to solve' ☝︎
mircea_popescu: graph operators/industrial draughtsmen about how "rain follows the plow" and other convenient anthropo-globalwarmisms of the oldwman herd cca 1800.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 13:51 asciilifeform: some people have allergy to digits, it seems
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1708973 << no. some non-people are trained as part of their non-people training at the hands of old women to a. never show their cunt in public b. run away whenever specific sounds are heard (1. sirens, 2. "freeze", 3. "nigger", 4. numbers and math, 5. etcetera). this is how old women build "a society" which looks exactly like fucking john gast's "american progress", a "painting" made by tele ☝︎
BingoBoingo: In other trends "plasti dip": https://archive.is/rPbBq
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1708972 <<< none of them even knows how to find a browser without autocomplete. ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 07:36 mircea_popescu: in other shit i discover, tila tequilla isn't who i thought it was.
trinque: thanks BingoBoingo for today's mental hardening exercise
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 06:35 danielpbarron: the hunger games chick showed her cunt even
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1708749 << And that Olympic football goalie had a telephoto lens on her starfish ☝︎