log☇︎
160600+ entries in 0.091s
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 19:45 trinque: asciilifeform: kids do more work installing cracked games and so on than it is to put something in hosts file
Barbarossa_: better for having a load of logs to chew through
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1708972 << would cure nobody, they want it to "how does the shutdown relate to me". the larger half of the whole "left or right can of pepsi" is the subjective impression of "personalization" of can of pepsi. ☝︎
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: there are arcane approaches to solving the problem mathematically ( see shamir's poker , etc ) but afaik none in battlefield use today.
Barbarossa_: or was it Ultimate Bet? I forget. There have been a lot of scams
Barbarossa_: that has been a problem in the past - a la a site known as Unibet
asciilifeform: claiming trng is unprovable. they might have a fg, or they might have a wad of bytes generated in 2014 and designated winners get a copy.
asciilifeform: this does not actually solve the problem of proving that the output of prng was not known in advance to one or more of the players. ☟︎
Barbarossa_: Pokerstars explicity claim TRNG
asciilifeform: ^ was in fashion for a while. prng is used, and the next day (week, month, etc) seed is published. however,
Barbarossa_: fwiw I've never heard a player even ask how they generate the entropy
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: there are commercial rng that use interferometer, yes ( NONE of them auditable by owner, in fact many epoxied and otherwise artificially painful to examine )
Barbarossa_: they made/make no pretensions as to verifiability
asciilifeform: 'We submitted extensive information about our random number generator (RNG) to an independent organization. We asked this trusted resource to perform an in-depth analysis of the randomness of the output of the RNG, and its implementation in the shuffling of the cards on our platform.' ☟︎
Barbarossa_: they claimed to fire photons at a semi-transparent mirror hosted somewhere in the Isle of Man
asciilifeform: which contains not only no proof of anything, but not even an assertion re what exactly they supposedly use
Barbarossa_: iirc I read it on their official blog, but this was a couple years back
asciilifeform: all i found was this http://www.gaminglabs.com/extranetGLI/cmsAdmin/getsplash.asp?i=190
asciilifeform: sorta what the toyota example is about.
asciilifeform: whereas if you get from asciilifeform strictly, it's just that one P.
asciilifeform: for that matter, maybe ~asciilifeform~ does. but you have to ~add~ P(one) to P(the other)...
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i haven't any notion, maybe he runs them near his particle accelerator's beamline, wat.
Barbarossa_: didn't wanna say yes, then have to delay a week getting ready to actually buy
Barbarossa_: time to setup all the PGP stuff and a hot wallet to send the bitcoin etc
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what do you expect from toyota when you go to them instead of used dealer ?
BingoBoingo: Well 2nd as opposed to first batch for one
ben_vulpes: for my illumination, what do you figure Barbarossa_ is buying from you that he is not from danielpbarron ?
asciilifeform: though i've thought about suggesting to mircea_popescu to offer hand-delivery ( chore would fall to asciilifeform... ) as an option. but i dun like nonflat prices ☟︎
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: all fg should be assumed to pass through ftmeade. sorta what the audit process is for, neh.
asciilifeform: so if mircea_popescu is paying ben_vulpes 10 dubloons per diem to guard his plutonium stash, it does not follow that this is 'above market' just because there is a queue of redditors offering to do it for 1 dubloon
asciilifeform: if you think you see somebody willingly paying 'more than market price', consider that you might be mistaken re the identity of what he's paying for
BingoBoingo: Ah, sorry The20YearIRCloud was it's name
BingoBoingo: !#s Thetwentyyear
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> old assets lolz, "rentalstarter" froze asset trading and then sold a pile of shares at above market price to "mystery investor who wanted to pay more than market price" << AHA, Thetwentyyear or some shit like that
asciilifeform: sorta like that thread where asciilifeform mentioned that he'd buy a 10,000$ comp. but not same comp he has , hopefully ! but ~a~ comp
Barbarossa_: not saying I want to, just that I would!
ben_vulpes: guy wants to buy at above market clearing price; it's funny!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there's nuffin wrong with folx reselling fg, or using it for fly fishing, or balloon ballast, whatever
ben_vulpes: old assets lolz, "rentalstarter" froze asset trading and then sold a pile of shares at above market price to "mystery investor who wanted to pay more than market price"
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: np. i recommend to stay tuned until mircea_popescu wakesup
Barbarossa_: thanks for the links, asciilifeform
Barbarossa_: I don't actually mind paying retail, thanks though!
danielpbarron: Barbarossa_, i might be interested in selling you one for a little less. what were you looking to spend?
Barbarossa_: but, but, but, open sauce, thousand eyes and all that
Barbarossa_: built by Ukranians in the 1980s?
asciilifeform: the main failure is that it does not :
asciilifeform: not so much from philanthropy, as from the fact of gpg being rather like the sarcophagus at chernobyl, times 9000
asciilifeform: a replacement is in the works here.
Barbarossa_: hmm looks like I need to read more logs
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: in the process of prototyping that one, we found that gpg is a turd
Barbarossa_: did you also create the PGP signing dongle thing?
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: see some linked examples ( near top of page , near the schems ) of other folx who verified.
Barbarossa_: I read the FG documentation - will be interesting verifying everything as a total layman
asciilifeform: this left johnson noise; and natural radioactivity + scintillation detector. the latter may appear in a future snsa product.
asciilifeform: ( which in turn works its way into the output, no matter what you do )
asciilifeform: and they all suffer from the equivalent of lcd moire
asciilifeform: because there is NO such thing as a zero-artifact adc.
Barbarossa_: me too
asciilifeform: i experimented with many types of rng.
Barbarossa_: ye, the key advantage to FG being auditability
asciilifeform: the problem with that method, as with many others, is the ~measurement~ apparatus
Barbarossa_: dunno how practical that'd be for a FG-type device tho
Barbarossa_: Pokerstars, the largest site, uses a semi-transparent mirror for entropy
asciilifeform: ( and many other nice things )
Barbarossa_: but I'm in the process of getting trb/linux/FG and all that
asciilifeform: i expect a pokerist would have something to say re rng, aha
Barbarossa_: I'm a professsional poker player from the UK ☟︎
asciilifeform: why ty Barbarossa_
Barbarossa_: I mostly just wanted to bring up FUCKGOATS coz I'm so happy that it exists
asciilifeform: and specify 'no thx i only want 1 box'
asciilifeform: you're welcome to send in 3x the btc !
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: waiwat -- you'd pay 3x, but not the current price ?!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the answer lies -- megasurprise -- in the broadcasts.
Barbarossa_: yup; tbh I'd pay 3x what you're charging
ben_vulpes: how is s.nsa earning the btc back with the price cuts? were materials not paid for in btc many moons past?
asciilifeform: does this make sense ?
asciilifeform: it does 0 good to earn back something other than the btc that was spent. because snsa operates in btc.
hanbot: Barbarossa_ if you own tits in some capacity you could always apply the proceeds of http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/ to your order eh
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: to shed more light on (entirely not seekrit) price structure -- to pay for producing a device, btc is spent. then it gotta be earned back.
asciilifeform: however, the difference b/w what ~that~ costs, and what we charge, is denominated in btc.
Barbarossa_: ye, division of labor and all that
asciilifeform: Barbarossa_: technically you can get it for exactly what it costs us -- make it yerself from the schematics
Barbarossa_: don't get me wrong: I'm mostly just trying to wrangle for an even cheaper implementation of gold standard entropy (despite not being a joo)
trinque: ikr, usd loses value all the time. serious variance.
asciilifeform: 1 btc is worth 1 btc today -- just as in 2009
Barbarossa_: kinda strange to use BTC as unit of account already, no?
asciilifeform: there are no plans to peg the price, however, to a fixed quantity of usd, or troy of gold, or pounds of grain, or any other babylonian metric.,
asciilifeform: and yes there was recently a price cut
ben_vulpes: Barbarossa_: there was just a price cut
trinque: not that particular one, but I would hazard a guess it lacked the hierarchial trust topology that makes other republican items work.
asciilifeform: is trinque familiar with 'eternity' and earlier attempts at perma-dht 133337w4r3ztronics ?
trinque: anyhow will write, not gonna try to babble it into logs further.
trinque: www itself is an incaism. death to "it was said on arsebook walled garden; lives and dies at the mercy of arsebook" ☟︎
asciilifeform: ah trinque you meant the incaism of dns etc
asciilifeform: 'hey trinque, what's your gurl's favourite colour?' '19a66977545747f383eccd6f570270a77cd620aa011651c94e777992ee63b08a30052eff4045e672c2387ebfbd18509e5c29a1a247fadcfebf3828dc02789b25....'
trinque: imagine the hilarity of actual human communication resembling www; you and I wish to speak irl, we go to the designated 3rd party for the particular language we'll speak, he relays between us and all other folks discussing same.
asciilifeform: ( the www people simply pissed on the problem, african-style, and didn't even pretend to solve ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: incidentally ted nelson struggled with this conundrum, and imho his failure to produce anything looked like a solution, is 1 of the reasons why he was relegated to 'voice in wilderness' rather than getting to define www
asciilifeform: i promise to read.
asciilifeform: more pedantic -- the merrier