asciilifeform: trinque: what is the point of attempting this distinction?

asciilifeform: l0l

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha 1 guy

asciilifeform: but imho i found the '2nd law of thermo' in re bitcoin- the nothing-for-showing-up principle.

asciilifeform: quite.

asciilifeform: trinque: and he checks for it by running hardcoded shellout...

asciilifeform: ~nobody wants to admit, but ~the~ mega-problem of bitcoin is... that it is FAR too accessible.

asciilifeform: http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=commit;h=28e2513721ff0cec920564d4087f3600cce8672e << for fucks sake

asciilifeform: perhaps i had everything backwards.. possibly, being able to transact ~without~ mining, is the bug. not mining...

asciilifeform: great plebespray.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would be interesting if a valid addr could only come to exist with a coinbase formation !

asciilifeform: http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=log << check out the claptrap.

asciilifeform: imaginarium rocked.

asciilifeform: mentioned re: duplicates.

asciilifeform: it.

asciilifeform: you can sorta guess the rest.

asciilifeform: tx-making - modular exp.

asciilifeform: addr - prime

asciilifeform: aha. my design, for instance, had tx-as-integer

asciilifeform: interesting idea

asciilifeform: pow to make addr?

asciilifeform: it solves malleability- but not doubles

asciilifeform: aha

asciilifeform: as we have it, comparing 2 tx is.. undecidable.

asciilifeform: rabid idiocy.

asciilifeform: but verily, s put the turingcompleteness in the ONE place it least belonged, the tx processor.

asciilifeform: where y != q

asciilifeform: can still transmit 'x -> y' and 'x -> q'

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1422109 << btw this doesn't cure doublespends. ☝︎

asciilifeform: i have nfi whether they make good pets tho

asciilifeform: go, see.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i dun think they even ~make~ non-hot gurlz in ar

asciilifeform: bitcoin is a desperate wartime wunderwaffen.

asciilifeform: i suspect that we all here know which.

asciilifeform: like castle title.

asciilifeform: unitaries.

asciilifeform: my useless unpublished 'bitcoin' circa 07 - had.

asciilifeform: i like unitary coinz.

asciilifeform: it still isn't '1 way' - sig nonce, timestamp, scriptolade...

asciilifeform: bitstrings are 'dupable' by nature, bitcoin's whole purpose is to hack around this, to the extent physically possible, like a ship is a hack around the sea

asciilifeform: what's this mean

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1422102 << waiwut?? ☝︎

asciilifeform: (and the protocol actually selects for idiots, smart folks don't mine)

asciilifeform: my point was, minertards won't go willingly into the good night.

asciilifeform: aha.

asciilifeform: war.

asciilifeform: the ancient and inevitable pill for such situations is called:

asciilifeform: aha.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's no such actual thing as flatgraph - only star topology with thinly disguised star.

asciilifeform: and good fucking riddance.

asciilifeform: the net-as-publictoilet era will end.

asciilifeform: and then he has to beg, to use the network at all.

asciilifeform: and stop peering with him.

asciilifeform: and it comes back to the tx thing like this: eventually we learn who shat out the million crud tx.

asciilifeform: aha.

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1422061 << i betcha that mircea_popescu could make an argument for nat! perhaps involving greek slavegurlz who can only speak outside the households through master's lips, or the like. ☝︎

asciilifeform: asymptotic death.

asciilifeform: you resolve in O(N^2).

asciilifeform: he can make'em in O(1)

asciilifeform: conflict resolution == free cpu for attacker.

asciilifeform: you check ~when expelling~ from the pool

asciilifeform: and yes, you sum over the non-conflicting tx.

asciilifeform: what's the problem with that ?

asciilifeform: while maximizing summed fee, aha

asciilifeform: the original thread was re: how the current protocol, which allows a tx to refer to unconfirmed inputs, is retarded.

asciilifeform: but 'seen first is The One' is asinine.

asciilifeform: the only logical thing.

asciilifeform: jurov: the logical thing to do would be to resolve all conflicts by maximizing fee.

asciilifeform: (well, it can be, if it falls below the specified fee/byte mark)

asciilifeform: it isn't a turd if it is valid.

asciilifeform: verily this is lame.

asciilifeform: whatever comes second ??

asciilifeform: and what does it reject ??

asciilifeform: jurov: checks for conflicts ?!

asciilifeform: jurov: works great in practice. in your trb node.

asciilifeform: as in, the actual blocks.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we have a permitted state - it is called the blockchain.

asciilifeform: well, validly-signed but inputs-already-spent-and-this-is-in-a-block is noise.

asciilifeform: jurov: beyond 'throw out the cheapo crapola', it is not relay's place to resolve the conflict.

asciilifeform: (though a number of folks do a mighty fine job failing, somehow, to)

asciilifeform: it is really not so fucking hard to grasp the protocol

asciilifeform: and is to be eschewed.

asciilifeform: from miner's pov, that'd be a defective relay

asciilifeform: jurov: aha

asciilifeform: l0l

asciilifeform: and overall notbad.

asciilifeform: it is kinda about this.

asciilifeform: who has seen the film 'the prestige' ?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has it.

asciilifeform: and which - the 'legit'.

asciilifeform: how am i to know which one is 'double'

asciilifeform: jurov: absolutely.

asciilifeform: (assuming that it is validly signed, and violates no rule)

asciilifeform: a tx that spends an input that is not yet spent in an actual block, is valid.

asciilifeform: this is the miner's job

asciilifeform: why?

asciilifeform: http://maryrosecook.com/blog/post/the-fibonacci-heap-ruins-my-life << lulzy and related.

asciilifeform: http://staff.ustc.edu.cn/~csli/graduate/algorithms/book6/chap21.htm ☟︎

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421924 << use a fibonacci heap. ☝︎

asciilifeform: what is so hard to grasp about this.