asciilifeform: (and exclude newlines from the hash entirely, and other demented things)

asciilifeform: and yes, if you want hand-verify, you gotta have the talmud-style line checksums.

asciilifeform: which are pointedly ~not~ logically equivalent

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435816 << the other objectionable thing is how mircea_popescu 'jwz's 'eye-readable' to mean 'existing software, and particularly unix cat' ☝︎

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435794 << ftr i utterly fail to grasp how he made this leap ☝︎

asciilifeform: also i would like to watch mp or anyone actually ~do~ the 'hand verify' thing. ☟︎

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435752 << a good chunk of the retardation is a ~result~ of the clearsign thing. ☝︎

asciilifeform: ( and if it must be had, the text is liable to look like a chimera of the talmud and nazi telex !11)

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435750<< we never had this. ☝︎

asciilifeform: not dead, but in a coma.

asciilifeform: l0l!!

asciilifeform: (or not.)

asciilifeform: googleimages it.

asciilifeform: hm.

asciilifeform: just when you thought you've seen every possible mangled corpse - surprise!!1111

asciilifeform: there is a mega-classic one of a whole man wrapped up on the lathe, like a rope.

asciilifeform: same idea.

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435703 << recall the very picturesque lathe accident photos in the logz? ☝︎

asciilifeform: and in fact, their work over mine.

asciilifeform: i can't speak for the farmers, but i would take the bull over boredom.

asciilifeform: boredom?

asciilifeform: *the

asciilifeform: what do american farmers typically die of on he job? ☟︎

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435673 << i kinda wonder re: casualties of bull vs tractor ☝︎

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435672 << designing arbitrarily rad-hard waldo is not so hard - use hydraulic actuators for everything. and what's more, it would ~happen~ if, instead of dead robot leading to a lucrative extension of contract, the designer were marched to clean the reactor ~personally~. ☝︎

asciilifeform: see link.

asciilifeform: 'we are entitled to everyone's plain text data, and if Congress won't give it to us, we'll use our 27.1 billion dollar budget, and army of 100K lawyers to take it in court. Your tax dollars at work.' ☟︎

asciilifeform: 'I did fight things out in court. It just occurred in secret, and while a proper description would require the use of vulgarity, I'll summarize by saying I was railroaded. The length of time between when I received the PRTT order, and when I was found in contempt (ex parte) was about 5 weeks. For comparison the /median /time between filing and disposition of a civil contempt charge in federal court during 2013 was 6 /months/.' ☟︎

asciilifeform: lavalulz: http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2016-March/028669.html

asciilifeform: this was a step towards the Right Thing.

asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=309 << obligatory oldie

asciilifeform bbl.

asciilifeform: *belief

asciilifeform: (or, shamefully, explored, or had your face rubbed in them, and then forgot)

asciilifeform: merely because you have not explored the edge cases that break it

asciilifeform: the act of carrying on in a belied that a CONCEPTUALY BUGGY system is a working item

asciilifeform: we need a word for this kind of thing

asciilifeform: i.e. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1435524 ☝︎

asciilifeform: at the cost of gpg being utterly retarded in 101 ways ☟︎

asciilifeform: it only APPEARS to work for gpg

asciilifeform: any way you cut it, trying to use a naked unix terminal for this is lunacy

asciilifeform: this is the ultimate in 'in-band'. mega-ugly.

asciilifeform: so, e.g., spaces, are not represented as merely a byte but a #\Space

asciilifeform: where the thing actually gets parsed out before the bignums are exponentiated

asciilifeform: then he ought sign s-expressions.

asciilifeform: and every time i try to explain to him that his notion of 'text' is ill-defined and the actual mechanics, as implemented in unix world and elsewhere, are malignantly retarded

asciilifeform: because - guess what - a CR/LF, LF, or CR - LOOK THE SAME on the page. ☟︎

asciilifeform: incidentally anybody who actually tries the latter with pgp, is stuck with mutilated line endings

asciilifeform: ( ... and then somehow type back in, and have the sig pass ??????)

asciilifeform: i.e. something he can cat to a line printer

asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu wants his fried ice

asciilifeform: aha and for that we do binary formats

asciilifeform: (it isn't useless, but a whole chunk of fs for them?!1)

asciilifeform: instead of idiocies like access time

asciilifeform: picture fs with a way to attach seals, say

asciilifeform: i propose - SANE STRUCTURE

asciilifeform: we already have structure.

asciilifeform: what switch.

asciilifeform: 'feed'em to pigz' as mircea_popescu said.

asciilifeform: the clinically sad are no concern of mine.

asciilifeform: it is an actual thing.

asciilifeform: you can't magic away the 'metadata' thing just by closing your eyes to it.

asciilifeform: because this is RETARDED

asciilifeform: but notice, at no point (since the dark ibm mainframe days anyway) did anyone suggest storing the access time, or perms, IN THE FILE proper

asciilifeform: it is not any more or less retarded than the old mac os forks.

asciilifeform: these are 'special' in the sense that fs stores them in designated places

asciilifeform: in unix file has name, but also, as everyone knows, epochal date and access perms

asciilifeform: this was, iirc, abolished (though it reappeared in a perverted form in winblowz ntfs)

asciilifeform: where there was a separate body for 'metadata' and another for what we think of as the file

asciilifeform: e.g., the old mac os had dual-forked file system

asciilifeform: this is not a trivial problem, and it has popped up in the past in various guises

asciilifeform: i get it, you can 'dwim' in your head, 'my eyes know how big it is' - but how does THE MACHINE know.

asciilifeform: this is just as problematic as agreeing that it is in the beginning of the file!

asciilifeform: let's say it is at the end.

asciilifeform: how does the pgptron know how big the signature is ?

asciilifeform: jurov: this solves nothing, it merely flips the problem on its head

asciilifeform: jurov: how do you know where the end is ??

asciilifeform: !up gabrielradio

asciilifeform: bits - have no colour. signature is necessarily a removable wrapper around a payload.

asciilifeform: ^ and copyrasts, etc.

asciilifeform: !s what color are your bits

asciilifeform: pretending otherwise is what the idiot watermark folks do.

asciilifeform: a non-signed item is trivially derived from any signed item.

asciilifeform: and pretending otherwise is lunacy.

asciilifeform: this is intrinsic.

asciilifeform: but NOTHING YOU CAN CAT TO LINE PRINTER IS BALLSACK-ATTACHED

asciilifeform: however you cannot cat this to a line printer.

asciilifeform: tell it to the whores!1111

asciilifeform: solved.

asciilifeform: ding.

asciilifeform: distribute the exponentiated payload !111111 ☟︎

asciilifeform: actually!

asciilifeform: though hm

asciilifeform: the signature is always physically separate

asciilifeform: how is this a possible thing at all ?

asciilifeform: but what specifically do you mean here

asciilifeform: and ditto the opposite

asciilifeform: i.e. any idiot can cut off the sig and convey payload without it

asciilifeform: this is not actually true of gpg clearsign

asciilifeform: what means 'same place'.