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mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939818 << i agree with this, make the index loglines if your whole thing is trying to order sets of lines by cardinal.
mp_en_viaje: pro-environment ecologically-minded left, amirite, in all times and places the principal producer of pollution in this world.
mp_en_viaje: the rms/ers/retardsonwheels brushing it under the rug, "oh, you'll know when you see it" is probably the chief idiocy ensuring their loud, miserable, pollutant-ladden failure.
mp_en_viaje: this is not usually given enough thought (in the sense of, any, for the scope of "free and open" shitsource) -- but the most important part of software development is the construction of the rational basis of merge decisions.
mp_en_viaje: imo is better because at least creates ~a record~ of the type of problems we're solving which not only might spark refinements downstream, but will also constiute a phenomenologically blessed test set for any such refinements, permitting ~RATIONAL~ acception or rejection if/when it comes to.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 15:55:27 asciilifeform: folx w/ mathematical inclinations, invited to comment re auto-sync algo described in #o .
mp_en_viaje: in this manner all-1 operator response will result in the behaviour you specced ; and anything else will result in finer control (at the obvious added cost of bothering to paste a buncha 1's in a paste).
mp_en_viaje: then once this is done syncer spits out paste consisting of aggregate L in response to command given in 1, and accepts as response a succession of bits (0, 1) telling it which to take where.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939815 << how's this for a proposedly "better" algo : 1. syncer is given target T ; 2 sincer loads tip of T (as the whole day page, DP), compares to its own record ; 3. if comparison results in any difference, syncer produces list L in the format of #count, own line, T line and moves to 4. which consists of repeating algo for DP-1.
diana_coman: meanwhile an initial look at irc networks suggests they might be ~all about as lively as a corpse really; but anyways, oftc, undernet, espernet and dalnet seem to have made it to the top to be contacted in the coming days.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 12:46:59 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939710 << funnily enuff, the crypto-christians left behind in jp after missionaries expelled, mutated into such a bizarre fork chain that modern church does not recognize'em as anyffin at all ( they mutter unrecognizable chants , which at some pt in 17th c were latin , from phonetic crib sheets to this day... but elsewise resemble 'insular buddhist sect' very cl
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939807 << i beleive the ~self-petrification~ they invented on the basis of their understanding of saintly behaviours virtues and outcomes is discussed in the logs somewhere.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 12:42:18 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939730 << i thought turks mainly picked up youngest-sons for the yenicheri corps
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939804 << by now year is 1800++, turks failed to conquer vienna but succeeded in becoming even more polite than the vienese.
mp_en_viaje: yes, precisely as in story -- the subject of self-delusion AND HIM ONLY goes about the world "under spell" of "the spell".
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 12:33:01 asciilifeform: asks again, 'boy...' finally boy takes off helmet and utters : 'sir, i fess up, i dun know these things, cuz i aint a REAL WELDER!!!'
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939803 << ahahahaha ok this is fucken perfect.
mp_en_viaje: not even a matter of "want the job". we've nobody even remotely capable of running such a thing, thereby the job is "accrete more people, especially non-male, non-engineer, non-maleengineer-retarded types"
mp_en_viaje: on the flimsy grounds that worked ok last we tried it, if naught else.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 12:18:34 asciilifeform: !Qlater tell trinque do you think you can get ben to reappear for long enuff to properly appoint tbf successor ? cuz imho a heavy bag o'coin attached to a beheaded tbf is unseemly and the orig charter offers no gc mechanism for it
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939794 << this is a problem ; probably the best solution's some kind of receivership.
asciilifeform expects that 'adult' synctron will be nearly as complicated as the logger per se...
asciilifeform: come to think of it, the syncer oughta have a timeout , for when a peer is in connectivity limbo
asciilifeform: fleanode will reliably throw if 1+min of 0packet.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ftr none of the pipe deaths so far have been long enuff to murder my 24/7 shell. but still annoying in re bot.
asciilifeform: ty BingoBoingo , broadcast the barf as it comes in
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The complaint is still escalated with emphasis on the pipe not having been near this unstable in the past
asciilifeform: further re syncer -- it oughta warn if logic proposes a non-empty drop set but peers fail to offer fill which covers at least it.
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 0d 1h 29m
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 21:21:37 asciilifeform: trinque, diana_coman , et al : draft!!! of semi-auto sync mechanism. is only ~demo~, it cannot write to a db, only proposes changes.
asciilifeform: meanwhile in the analogue room -- asciilifeform already found a logical boojum in sync demo -- will not fetch tails for chans where nuffin was proposed to drop. ( easy to fix, but i've not enuff wake-hours atm to do it just nao )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: They're wrestling with international carrier. Will let you know when there's news.
lobbes: asciilifeform: for when circus festivities end, I have three sigs for the three latest patches to the logotron
asciilifeform: that is, when selected from the page
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 21:06:09 snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 08:36:01 mircea_popescu: who else wants travel keys tehn ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 21:21:59 lobbesbot: trinque: Sent 8 hours and 47 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> do you think you can get ben to reappear for long enuff to properly appoint tbf successor ? cuz imho a heavy bag o'coin attached to a beheaded tbf is unseemly and the orig charter offers no gc mechanism for it
asciilifeform: unrelated (or is it? ) diana_coman what do you think happened here : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939877 << >> http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939877 ?
asciilifeform: cycled bot, synced. i suspect this circus will continue after i goto bed tho.
trinque: sorry for the gagged deedbot meanwhile; that outage caught me in the middle of a multi-channel experiment
BingoBoingo: Datacenter has been contacted. Going to visit the rack.
asciilifeform will bbl in ~1h, if pipe is standing will sync logs, until then errybody to diana_coman's
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo there's gotta be a human in there, day or night, give him a ring
asciilifeform: i find it mighty 'coincidence'(tm) that for year+ we get 24/7 pipe, and then put a logger and nao dulap-I treatment.
mod6: trinque: no, I haven't spoken to him about that.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'ma ask that you put a flame to the necessary arse tomorrow
asciilifeform: aaand there it goes again
asciilifeform: i'ma have to reset it manually & sync, brb
asciilifeform: outage apparently over, but, annoyingly, bvt's patched bot did NOT correctly detect the disconnect.
trinque: ^ was not able to connect to uy1 until just now
lobbes: asciilifeform, diana_coman I also have #lobbes registered with fleanode and live. Feel free to include in your loggers if you want. No archives to snarf really
lobbes: alrighty, http://logs.ericbenevides.com/ are current with the other two stan-loggers in terms of version
lobbes: about to switch over ericbot to new patch; about 30 seconds of downtime
lobbes: asciilifeform: neato, I will give it some testing this weekend
asciilifeform: this is all that asciilifeform presently has to say on the subj.
asciilifeform: folx having a few spare min and a logotron staging box, are invited to experiment (oughta be safe even on a production box, this proggy does not write to db.)
asciilifeform: ( a 'tail', if this is not clear from thread, refers to a set of lines offered by a given peer for a given chan from a particular starting index, to the present time. )
asciilifeform: no attempt is yet made to determine if two peers offer same tail (they will differ, guaranteed, in timestamps, but ought not elsewise. but this is not touched yet.)
asciilifeform: if two peers offer the same length of tail, the peer with the higher priority (indicated by order of mention in config) is chosen.
asciilifeform: to stdio is written the progress of loads from peers (incl. how many lines of 'tail' obtained from each.)
asciilifeform: output also contains comments to show where begin blocks of proposed discards ; where -- imports (and from what peer, to what chan.)
asciilifeform: output seems to behave correctly in re uniturds but this again needs careful test.
asciilifeform: instead picked a reasonable format where 'DEL;chan;idx;' proposes the removal of a line; 'ADD;chan;...' (with ... as in traditional raw dumps currently) proposes an import ; and # signifies comment until newline.
asciilifeform: i considered to make it shit out edible sql dump; but then realized that i have nfi how to guarantee sanity re uniturdism in these.
asciilifeform: absolutely NOT ready for battlefield, requires tests (using eyes and hands.)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 16:06:25 asciilifeform: diana_coman: aite. proposed algo , is a manually-triggered item that 1) takes a 'breakage point', i.e. last known correctly logged line represented by tuple [chan, index] . 2) finds its timestamp 3) drops errything in db postdating said timestamp 4) walks list of peer loggers, fetches for each enabled chan, errything from last-known-idx i to i+500 5) 4 is repeated until returns <500 6) then takes the ~longest~ s
asciilifeform: ^ implements algo discussed earlier today with diana_coman .
asciilifeform: there is yet no eater for these outputs (tho will not be difficult to write, i suspect)
asciilifeform: trinque, diana_coman , et al : draft!!! of semi-auto sync mechanism. is only ~demo~, it cannot write to a db, only proposes changes.
asciilifeform: trinque: actually i have a draft ready to review
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 20:02:13 asciilifeform: was thinking re how oughta do auto-syncs. one possible method, is for bot to take command via pm, e.g. !q sync 1000 http://logs.ossasepia.com ; would then walk last N (here, 1000) ln, and offer 'identical', 'diverges prior', or 'diverges at I', I is index, and offer alignment, operator (set in config who) can then confirm or reject
trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938022 << if you're hardening against the unreliability of freenode, why use freenode as your sync transport?
asciilifeform: ty trinque !
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 08:36:01 mircea_popescu: who else wants travel keys tehn ?
lobbesbot: trinque: Sent 8 hours and 47 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> do you think you can get ben to reappear for long enuff to properly appoint tbf successor ? cuz imho a heavy bag o'coin attached to a beheaded tbf is unseemly and the orig charter offers no gc mechanism for it
trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937851 << so here's an idea. suppose you could define a ttl on your voice tokens, i.e. "worx until block x". then folks could pile them up for travels.
lobbes: still ain't a mp-endorsed castle either. I figure that time may come one day, but that time isn't now as far as I can tell.
lobbes: asciilifeform: yea, I think I'ma gonna register a new channel with fleanode (#lobbes). As such, no need for archive import (there wasn't much in the old one either save for testing of various things). I'll let you know once it is live
asciilifeform: lobbes: if you want to emphasize that it's a mp-endorsed castle, put the deed in the chan subjline like in #a.
asciilifeform: lobbes: #lobbes is imho preferable to the other. (seems to be the de-facto standard presently)
asciilifeform: even the 6, i found will spill on some very small screens
asciilifeform: sumthing clever ~will~ have to be done w/ the header , 7 might even fit right nao, but 8 defo won't..
asciilifeform: lobbes: i dun have any problem w/ including your castle ( is it properly proclaimed castle via mp yet ? btw ? ) -- tho may have to fiddle w/ the htmlism so all 7 actually fit in the header . lemme know when yer ready to deed a signed copy of the archival log for it, to be eaten.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: ty
lobbes: once I make that switch, I would not mind it being logged if folx are willing to log it
lobbes may just bite the bullet and do this tonight, actually
lobbes: however, I'm considering simply registering a "#lobbes" in its stead. However, haven't yet gotten to it due to the need to go through the rigmarole of registering it with fleanode, setting all my bots to +o, etc.
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-03 19:43:07 asciilifeform: lobbes do you want it logged by the orchestra ?
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939858 << hm, that channel is/was intended to serve as my cvasi-castle. Registered it some time ago and copied the naming format ala "#trilema-mod6"
diana_coman: asciilifeform: true re very little traffic in most chans as only reason why one can still sync manually, yes.
asciilifeform must go to meat, bbl
asciilifeform: lobbes do you want it logged by the orchestra ?
asciilifeform: incidentally, lobbes seems to have made a 7th ?
asciilifeform: atm the hand-operated sync only feels practical because there is very little traffic in most of the chans. if all 6 were burning hot 24/7 , could take many hrs of frustrated cranking to actually sync'em all.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: I meant that multiple-chan is the part where automation wins here; otherwise retrieving the lines + drop/insert is anyway semi-automated at best for the above reasons.
asciilifeform: ( aside from the timestamp thing )
diana_coman: anyway, I'll read & try if you publish it
diana_coman: tbh that's the main reason why I didn't reach for "automate it" - because a lot of it still remains manual; it's more this multiple-chan the trouble perhaps than anything else.
asciilifeform: ( it's the only way to avoid missing a line that was 'in flight' as the proggy ran, elementarily )
asciilifeform: and atm there is no way to weasel out of the work of manually checking the result against yer personal running session.
asciilifeform: it is given strictly as a mechanized version of the thing we do presently when a bot falls.