log☇︎
143800+ entries in 0.086s
mircea_popescu: rly ? cuz what, he had a martha stewart type show on tv ?
asciilifeform: dunno if it makes sense to call, e.g., pacepa, net drain
mircea_popescu: i seem to recall every single wall jumper net drain on puyblic chest for whole life.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha wait, and the sailor did not ?
asciilifeform: and wall not so tall to begin with
asciilifeform: because they're seeking welfarola.
asciilifeform: ( and when the aspiring escapees, i suspect, were the upper cut of the bell curve )
asciilifeform: it was able to exist when the wall was reasonably tight.
mircea_popescu: i don't think this subject of your nostalgia ever existed outside the vhs world. it's like muller.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> d00d was in no sense in control tho << Most bureaucrats aren't
fromloper: What happened to qntra site
asciilifeform: ( even despite the 'being someone' point, consider that 1 sailor who jumped from sov ship. usa did not send him back... )
fromloper: ascii I have been reading logs when i relevant, also Trilema site.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re 'defectors' it is a quite nostalgic subject for asciilifeform , because it is an item from meanwhile wholly vanished, like roman empire, age, where escape from an empire was simply a matter of getting through a wall
asciilifeform: generally noobs are advised to read the log for a spell, before considering whether they have something to say
fromloper: I was in the http://www.loper-os.org and clicked on contact and landed in this nice pot.
asciilifeform must invoke herr babbage, 'i cannot rightfully apprehend the confusion of ideas...' ☟︎
asciilifeform: but in this case even that excuse is not available
asciilifeform: normally i would assume fromloper does not know about the log ( even though log is linked in subj line of #trilema ...! )
asciilifeform: fromloper: could readily answer the question with your own hands. why do you ask people to do the work of machine for you ?
asciilifeform: fromloper: you just linked to a logtron. with search.
fromloper: Any discussion about btc or bch today?
mircea_popescu: well how do you know what they dream etc.
asciilifeform: i.e. they dun dream to live out the rest of their days in pekin
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in situ traitors are not properly speaking defectors
mircea_popescu: well in this sense whole dnc long defected to china, moved desperately to prevent ru-us rapproachment back in the early days of 2016 when sitll possible.
fromloper: This is however more pleasing to my eyes than the other black and green one
mircea_popescu: or i guess you don't count that one ?
fromloper: Somehow manage to get here by clicking on contact.
asciilifeform: engineers likely to know moar , i suspect, than general. and cost less.
mircea_popescu: what exactly could you possibly use one for ? not like they even have the usual value of "stolen documents", i guarantee you if you examed the O-paygrade you'd find not a single soul as well informed as the famous contractor/defector.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can't think of a competent anyone in the whole us army/navy/airforce brass.
asciilifeform: fromloper: who goes there
asciilifeform: moar specific than just 'd00d with black passport'
asciilifeform: but naturally 'americans' dun get to defect, you gotta actually be someone
mircea_popescu: buncha defectors since korean war to china, but ... not nearly the same interest.
asciilifeform: that they did not enjoy it so much, was their own problem
mircea_popescu: it's not common for eg greeks or italians to go crazy over "the beatles", they simply make a local band like that and that's it.
mircea_popescu: just so ustards are going to buy pacepa's nonsensical books.
mircea_popescu: you'\re still missing the important point. usg is looking for a brand to show its large citizenry. much like every attempt to hold a tech fconference in argentina degenerates into a bunch of local tards speaking/stepping over each other to blather meaninglessly in the hope of thereby attaining a certificate of humanhood from the foreigners,
mircea_popescu: the problem with this is that soviet military man valuable ; chinese valuable ; romanian evidently valuable. what value does us tard bring ?
asciilifeform: it is when the folx on ~other end~ buy you plane ticket. or for that matter whole plane. and villa. etc
asciilifeform: rather than simply i buy a plane ticket.
asciilifeform: a defector as i understand the word, is a honoured guest of the crown
asciilifeform: ( plenty of folx from, e.g., ru, living and working in cn. but i am speaking of ~defectors~, as in 'i'd rather have a flat in pekin than continue as lt. colonel at nsa ' )
mircea_popescu: not usually advertised, but the expat community large indeed.
asciilifeform: afaik feeling is quite mutual : to my knowledge no white man to date defected, properly speaking, to the rice kingdom
mircea_popescu: nah. it's already very much siberia as far as they're concerned.
asciilifeform: china would make penal colony there, or something useful.
asciilifeform: or at the very least would retain the threadbare sanity of usa circa 1980s
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 21:40 mircea_popescu: very much it. extremely easy to defeat ustardation : just say no. it helps if you have a fully built system providing an alternative.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1738408 << at the risk of repeating ancient thread, imho if there were a ready alternative ( as in geographic , rather than merely ideological ) to usa, for the remaining ~functional people to defect to -- usa wouldn't last a week ☝︎
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUfeuosbeJg << 1968 speech. "invasion a mistake and inconceivable outrage" most of the applause THAT time is genuine. "no justification available and no reasoning may be accepted" and so on.
mircea_popescu: kinda why the whole ww2 made him so trotsky-sensitive, too.
mircea_popescu: trotsky too idiotic to have stalin killed back when he could.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the long run, stalin's internationalism proved the terribly wrong strategy. shoulda went with trotsky.
asciilifeform: also he had an actual nation, properly speaking, and made full use of the fact
asciilifeform: not much of a talker, but he was quick enuff on his feet ( pointedly unlike the su gerontocrats )
mircea_popescu: but anyway, in spite of an inability to speak in public, or to make sense, extemporaneously or not, ceausescu was a major player in the status quo of 70s and 80s. that whole "don't mix into the affairs of others", very strong nationalism, managed to paralyze the us-owned and hosted un for two decafdes.
a111: Logged on 2014-07-28 19:19 asciilifeform: 'Learn not to participate - to the point of utter impossibility of meeting the enemy 'half-way' - and you will see that inside there lay a very useful mindfuck: in learning to 'nonparticipate,' in fact you drew out your *will* from its scabbard - to which it seemed so securely riveted by your upbringing. The appearance of *your will* changes everything and forever. With your own will slipped into your boot knife
asciilifeform: ( tho i liked the other one -- http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-28#774690 -- moar ) ☝︎
mircea_popescu: very much it. extremely easy to defeat ustardation : just say no. it helps if you have a fully built system providing an alternative. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: you recall that (uncharacteristically well written) orlov article re "power of nyet" ?
mircea_popescu: in this light quite remarkable, yes.
asciilifeform: against the mcbeast.
asciilifeform: but the moar i dig into ro , the more astonishing the level of fight it was able to put up
mircea_popescu: the latter needed moar size ; the former a better ideology. evidently worked for eg china, so there is some tolerance.
mircea_popescu: possibly there be others.
asciilifeform: ideology is the only working pill against 'market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent'
mircea_popescu: (closed here means "without externalities" rather than anything else)
a111: Logged on 2017-11-07 22:59 asciilifeform: this is the fate of all 'we don't have an ideology' derps
mircea_popescu: the over-reaching all-important point is that had the dudes of 1985 produced an ideologically-closed system, by 1995 there'd have been a WHERE for people to go, other than windows.
mircea_popescu: it's there whether considered or disconsidered.
mircea_popescu: until macrosensible nobody even in bad dreams considers the cancer a threat.
asciilifeform: until mid '90s nobody even in bad dreams considered it a threat to industrial iron tho.
mircea_popescu: thjat is the ~only token re windows.
asciilifeform: by that token jobs existed in '77 neh
mircea_popescu: that made them exist.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 1983 to 1985 is 3600, yes ?
mircea_popescu: that final "all the better" being the republic part. they failed to construct this system whereby extreme violence applied to everyone else was a net positive, in and of itself, for no other reason.
asciilifeform: the winblowz item still strikes me as anachronistic, rather like the supposition that men killed tyranosaur.
mircea_popescu: and if this takes putting a few million instagramers on stakes, ALL THE BETTER.
mircea_popescu: and thereby, an ivory on every desk not a fucking windows.
mircea_popescu: the important point is to be able to make the world make fucking sense against the constant yelps of the idiots who want the world to be comfortable.
asciilifeform: but originally -- worked. or how do you suppose the 'ivies' got, and stayed, fat.
asciilifeform: at this point that describes their whole civilizational shebang, the hollow husk
asciilifeform: superficially their scheme works to this day -- i.e. 'you can elect anyone you like, but he'll be a harvaprinceyalton graduate, muhahaha'
mircea_popescu: there were two groups worth the mention during "golden age" of europe : mechants, and scholars. the prime characteristic of either ? immune to common law process!
mircea_popescu: but leaving these proper statements aside -- never mind the civilisational aspect, limit yourself to culture. they might've bothered to realise the only enemy is the taxpayer, moved to limit his impact on government. exactly as the medieval collegiate disputes flew.
mircea_popescu: ("oh, romanian gymnasts!!!" "yeah, right. you are aware none of the girls actually wanted to be there, yes ?")
mircea_popescu: change college admission to be more like arrest, for one thing.
asciilifeform: the fact that it was solar-powered ?
mircea_popescu: so ? who made it that way, king bohemius the 9th ?
mircea_popescu: nope. they drag the local barristas into the campus by the hair to be raped for a weekend at a time.
asciilifeform: they move to amish countryside and make lispms out of grass ?
mircea_popescu: same way the same exact item opened cannon fire at the "taxpayers" from atop the walls of oxford. ☟︎
asciilifeform: what would this look like
asciilifeform: re ai lab -- mircea_popescu how do you picture a buncha taxpayer-funded academics not-'failing-to-republic' , hypothetically ?
mircea_popescu: nytimes also didn't "picture itself in competition with the weird net kids". and so following, chuck e cheese dude's "ipad restaurant" didn't see itself in competition with phones. "it's a restaurant". no it's not.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the matter was fluid in 1980. could have been.