log☇︎
142200+ entries in 0.085s
mircea_popescu: whole idea now is "can safely replace explanation from 1 with item from 2". if we break this re 1 wtf do we do, you write AI to discern between dex-powered and mp-powered explanations of words ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it can't do the right thing if i changed the explanation.
asciilifeform: but i'd be curious to hear what various folx ( phf , say ) have to say re optimal data structure for dicts.
asciilifeform: the machine would still do the Right Thing later, when merging into the larger dex
mircea_popescu: it's blocking in my head cuz im not gonna edit items by hand if they're gonna be updated by machine.
asciilifeform: can extend the primitive dict for nao, then merge laters.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so are we deciding that is to be the base item and not gonna dump new dex into it ?
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2012/cine-se-casatoreste/#comment-83174 << item from ancient trilema "how about if there was some chick that got implanted ovules from right-to-life xtian women only and strictly to abort them 10 weeks in as a trolling thing"
asciilifeform: back to the baseline item ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-19#1740660 ) -- if mircea_popescu , diana_coman , spyked , ... ( who else we have ? ) would like to submit corrections/additions/subtractions -- plox to vpatch ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: that's the surreal bit
asciilifeform: to make the one instrument of enstupefaction, they used enuff sweat to make ten of actual learning
mircea_popescu: it's the anglocurse.
mircea_popescu: much like they managed to turn banking system from system for achieving wealth to system for avoiding wealth.
asciilifeform: i find it interesting, entomologically, what the anglotards did with the idea of dictionary. they turned instrument ~for learning language~ into one ~for avoiding learning language~ -- the result is google's 'translate'
mircea_popescu: im not saying explainatory, esp because wtf is translatatory then.
mircea_popescu: rather -- no longer guaranteed to give brain damage.
mircea_popescu: but if explainy part provided, some perl on the side is no longer brain rotting.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform always a problem of translaty dict, as discussed. no way out of this, translaty dict is perl.
asciilifeform: nao there is some devil in the details, namely what to do with linkages that aren't straight equivalence, b/w word-in-a and word-in-b
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ikr ? the previous set of globalists, with the tripod sites etc, promised lots of jules verne crap, went away like nothing.
asciilifeform: it was promised to me in 1995!11111
asciilifeform: no reason these should not all exist as 1 hyper-whatevertron.
asciilifeform: 'tis trooo tho
mircea_popescu is noticing how this "how come nothing was done before republic got to it" point is fading out of discourse. trite!
mircea_popescu: ynot bridged together ?
mircea_popescu: somehow a dictionary entry is the best way to distinguish men from idiots.
mircea_popescu: i like this.
asciilifeform: strike that, 1949.
asciilifeform: prolly the best known one.
mircea_popescu: got a gateway to latin and a gateway to the east, and the idiotic lingua franca of stupid people as the archimede screw for it all.
mircea_popescu: then you can ACTUALLY translate, for once.
mircea_popescu: anywauy, i didn't mean "same treatment" in the sense of ipaization, i meant same treatment in the sense of translaty/explainy flatfile.
mircea_popescu: (is hysterical bit re this in classical ro comedy film, "monsieur se scrie, monsieur se citeste, ci tat umbli cu cioara vapsita!")
asciilifeform: ipatronic ru dict is just about trivial.
asciilifeform: ( nobody in ru has a problem knowing how to say e.g. Чаушеску . it's a nearly magical fix. )
mircea_popescu: but incidentally -- same treatment could be applied to ru-eng item, resulting in a megabridge here.
asciilifeform: ( you can't write the loaned name in orc directly, so it gets properly phonized )
asciilifeform: see in ru we dun have this problem , it gets fixed 'automagically', e.g. Марго ☟︎
mircea_popescu: stands out like sore thumb for it too, wtf is that o.
mircea_popescu: i can't think of one ; except for imports (see eg http://trilema.com/2010/care-sunt-iq-tau/#comment-123116 margot, read in ro in the french manner).
asciilifeform: the problem is typically common-use irregulars
asciilifeform: unknown words get the regular algo and that's that, they're never the problem
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let's try this. make up a girl's name and i'll tell you how it sounds in romanian. then diana_coman spyked alex_c whosoever else can confirm or infirm.
asciilifeform: dunno if 'se scrie cum se citeste' claim of ro is any moar troo than the ru 'как слышится так и пишется' truism
mircea_popescu: as opposed to eg alphabet co go-playing code.
mircea_popescu: in the sense that the resulting code would be in itself an interesting knowledge pile.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as an aside : the "limba romana este singura limba care se scrie cum se citeste" ro linguistics dogmatics promises there's a workable ro-ipaize-tron somewhere. at least in the sense of "we could get 99% success rate". it IS a point of fact that ~any romanian speaker can correctly notate new words on the basis of sound, and this is PRECISELY the sort of artificial intelligence that's amenable to numeric methods.
mircea_popescu: let's also see if phf wants to add nething. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: ro guy spent life trying to bake dict
asciilifeform: long term thing. nobody yet baked a dictionary in a day, lol
mircea_popescu: anyway, to leave the pressure off : im still willing to go through it by line and improve as time permits, but there's no rush, so let's first make an optimal basis and see.
asciilifeform: ( the lisp folx, fwiw, largely finessed the orcogram problem before utf8 climbed down from the trees )
mircea_popescu: this would be a good thing in the eye of the lord.
asciilifeform: rather than binturds
asciilifeform: well in sexpr they'd end up named, things like #\Alef
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can even put them as aside binary blob, as discussed re fg/bootturds etc. "you wanrt to see the orcograms, find item #x in list"
asciilifeform: ( would put'em as a middle column, rather than in place of the existing )
asciilifeform: i'd settle for getting the orcograms back in 'ro_eng'
mircea_popescu: so i guess we can skip the ipa bit for now
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, for some reason i thought dex included a pronounciation guide, but it seems mostly absent/unreliable.
mircea_popescu: this would be (as per tradition / discussion yest etc) actually a very powerful item ~for the student of english~, too. even if he only spake english.
asciilifeform: nao, a language, granted, is moar than merely its dictionary. but innit a crying shame, that we're still stuck with shit dictionaries.
asciilifeform: it is truly mind-boggling, this item was possible already around 1995 or so. and yet afaik exists for no language.
asciilifeform: The Trooo Ultimate Ro Dict prolly oughta be a sexpr
a111: Logged on 2017-11-19 02:00 asciilifeform: caveat x2 : no îțâșă . but it was missing in the original, i did not remove it. ascii-only, in the derp's original, e.g. 'uşă' turns into 'usa'.
mircea_popescu: making you a major cultural player, in the vein of dead people.
asciilifeform: the one i genesised ? it's been de-orced, so to ipaize gotta be re-orced
mircea_popescu: but with those changes you not only have only ro dict online, but you also have best ro dict ever made in 3k years of ro history.
mircea_popescu: now, i would much appreciate if you took the current bs and ipa'd it properly (it's not THAT hard, ro ipa set is narrow and unambiguous) ☟︎
mircea_popescu: you could ALSO add the etymology notation as separate field, but can also leave it as is (part of the expl)
mircea_popescu: look at it, it's always separated in the definition, at beginning
asciilifeform: waitasec how to mechanize the ipa ?
mircea_popescu: the correct transform imo would be from your (word/dubious expl/engl equiv) into (word/proposed english equiv/ipa notation/proper dex expl). this can be done mechanically on the basis of the two items.
shinohai: Would be greatly appreciated to have plaintext item, asciilifeform .... I also prefer to simply grep word I am looking for whilst studying.
mircea_popescu: can readily replacve the middle column
asciilifeform: prolly oughta turn into plain txt and genesisate tho.
asciilifeform: that's separate item tho. it's a толковый словарь
mircea_popescu: sql item linked today
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform are you gonna vpatch the new dict on the old btw ? or what's next step here ?
asciilifeform: ( re the 2012 piece )
mircea_popescu: (whole thing is entirely symbolic by now, obviously. but at one point ...)
asciilifeform: oh hah i can finally read that.
mircea_popescu: hey. don't make the call unless it's warranted.
asciilifeform: too many forced marches like this and you end up with africa-style 'instant balloon' genotype
mircea_popescu: specifically the "Si daca tot m-am enervat, sa facem si o regula : cine se casatoreste nu mai are dreptul sa fie dizident. Dizidenta e pentru barbati, nu pentru pulalai inscrisi in registru' reproductiv al neamului. Odata ce te-ai casatorit cu una ai terminat-o cu pretentiile si nemultumirile apropo de "orinduirea sociala". Nu mai ai ce sa comentezi, te inscrii acolo in ordine asa cum este ea si iti vezi de sters cacatu' de p
mircea_popescu: so in this sense, having a harem of galon-boobed females is the ~only sort-of get-out-of-jail-card for http://trilema.com/2012/cine-se-casatoreste/ problem,
a111: Logged on 2017-11-20 00:43 mircea_popescu: what complaint can there be had ? "starve to the light" is for teens, small children have no useful fat reserves.
mircea_popescu: anyway, getting briefly back to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-20#1740875 : the importance of big boobs in women is exactly this : if you make the decision to forced march through desert, the offspring of A-cup camp followers will die ; DD and so forth will survive -- female body will melt the tit into nothing before letting kid starve, whole process driven by that one true whip of the female psyche, the child-dying-of-hunger ☝︎
asciilifeform: ( even at the time, was obvious sufferer )
mircea_popescu: was he the one dedicated to the service of some woman ?
asciilifeform: i was stuck on a plane with that d00d, pretty far gone case
mircea_popescu: yes but rarely will a us born esl fellow wriote his angst under the correct piece.
mircea_popescu: well, archeologists of the future are welcome to resolve this, i ain't digging.
asciilifeform: in comments under the closing statement, iirc
asciilifeform: iirc it was from WoL flame on trilema
mircea_popescu: (admittedly, it became obvious to me faster than "to most people" or w/e)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought that was re me de-backing altcoin once it become obvious can't work
asciilifeform: !#seen ThickAsThieves
mircea_popescu: i don't recall that part ?
asciilifeform: ( was interesting episode, the 'war of life' thing, where the entirely unrelated d00d went apeshit over its closing )