asciilifeform: thing is, anon randos don't and can't have 'whos'

asciilifeform: just like wot folks.

asciilifeform: nodes can have no meaningful identity other than pubkeys.

asciilifeform: for one thing, 'pairing' is undefined

asciilifeform: phf: and how do you accomplish this

asciilifeform: revealed symmetric key - game over

asciilifeform: revealed pubkey is not a compromise.

asciilifeform: and anyway you can't use symmetric key that could be pulled from the binary by adversary to any useful end.

asciilifeform: we demonstrated this in... march?

asciilifeform: symmetric crypto other than otp dun exist.

asciilifeform: wtf is aes pair?!

asciilifeform: what key is baked into individual instance?

asciilifeform: the one tricky bit is the crypto

asciilifeform: you want a really small beast, that you can easily polymorph, stuff into roms, various appropriate places..

asciilifeform: aha.

asciilifeform: phf: correct.

asciilifeform: we sorta went over this in the pogo threads.

asciilifeform: most chumps live behind nat.

asciilifeform: the p2p control is the one tricky bit

asciilifeform: quite easy to do actually.

asciilifeform: which is why you want TINY emulated thing.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for one thing, traditional bot-herding is a misery in 1,001 ways: intensely platform-specific, suffers various central points of failure, etc

asciilifeform: but rather mechanizing the process of harnessing chickens.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we aren't merely 'let's pool chumpnets between phriendz' here.

asciilifeform: aha, as in v.

asciilifeform: my understanding was that we are specifically protocolizing what was once customarily promise.

asciilifeform: and not ever 'just bash'

asciilifeform: if you want wot-open, yer stuck with above algo.

asciilifeform: because syphilitic.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: open boxes are rubbish.

asciilifeform: permanent.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the key emplaced on install.

asciilifeform: in that sense, yes

asciilifeform: emulate mips, or even oisc

asciilifeform: phf: without the qemu crapola

asciilifeform: at any rate, nothing precludes listening for new turd WHILE running current one.

asciilifeform: maybe on bbc.

asciilifeform: maybe it comes from shortwave picked up in soundcard hiss.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it dun matter where it comes from, so long as valid sig

asciilifeform: Min(box-c, turd-c)

asciilifeform: and listens again, etc.

asciilifeform: then stops.

asciilifeform: for C cycles.

asciilifeform: when it pieces one together, and it passes sig - it runs.

asciilifeform: for years, if it has to.

asciilifeform: in 'idle' state, when the thing has no payload, it listens for a lubyfied turd signed with $key.

asciilifeform: aha.

asciilifeform: you can build, e.g., linux, for it.

asciilifeform: if you emulate a cpu that gcc knows how to target,

asciilifeform: but that has nic, disk, etc

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: victim ends up running something like a nintendo emu

asciilifeform: bam, os, bash, whatever.

asciilifeform: you can buildroot for it...

asciilifeform: beauty is,

asciilifeform: anyway something simple, like a mips emulator, fits in 200ln of c, and can execute N cycles permitting B bytes of storage, etc.

asciilifeform: ^

asciilifeform: you need maybe 100kB max.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ick, massive

asciilifeform: worked kinda like this...

asciilifeform: btw there was a trojan bearing 'tinyscheme'

asciilifeform: nontrivial on toy os

asciilifeform: (consider etherfartgas)

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: very easy to botch, note

asciilifeform: this is in the homomorphic vein

asciilifeform: not thinking of it here

asciilifeform: where a node receives encrypted 'rubbish' and does ?????, and sends various rubbish back, and adversary would have to capture 67% of nodes to have any clue re what.

asciilifeform: and the other one.

asciilifeform: there are 2 basic angles to approach uci : the standard botnet model, which appears to be what mircea_popescu is thinking of, where nodes are individual boxes running specific program that does fairly straightforward thing,

asciilifeform: whether nodes obey would depend on who signed.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: as i understand: by signing and broadcasting a message.

asciilifeform: you gotta somehow abstract over the 1024 chickens pulling in random directions and dying periodically.

asciilifeform: chaos is bigger adversary here than any others

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it isn't enough

asciilifeform: *care

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it already takes carr of comms and storage...

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that would close the triangle

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: speaking of uci, ever consider generalizing luby's algo to ~calculation~ ?

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-02#1494505 << is logic here 'the genuine article would Never!11' or what ☝︎

asciilifeform: trains?

asciilifeform: from glass?!

asciilifeform: dealing with bugmen begins with trust-but-verify.

asciilifeform: at any rate, this is not simply a usaschwitz problem, if ANY of you buy chinese glass-anything, there ain't no boron in there.

asciilifeform: if you consider how one actually goes about cutting glass, it is an interesting analogy.

asciilifeform: it is a matter of finding it.

asciilifeform: there is always a correct knife.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i offer the knife whereby we cut them off, like defective siamese twin, from actual people.

asciilifeform: which is now ~unavailable in usa, except in antique stores

asciilifeform: jurov: it helps with 'i walked in here to buy borosilicate kettle'

asciilifeform: dafuq is that, arse-mouth-system ?

asciilifeform: everybody uses glass.

asciilifeform: not same thing.

asciilifeform: that's a designated cow stall

asciilifeform: would put some fear of god back into the fuckers, if folks could test in 3sec.

asciilifeform: spectroscope.

asciilifeform: so: trust but verify.

asciilifeform: today - not.

asciilifeform: at one point trademark at least strongly implied 'same thing your grandfather had'

asciilifeform: nobody cares if yer a martian or whatever.

asciilifeform: hanbot: greed trumps all.

asciilifeform: in other nyooz, i finally found some properly greedy folk in bmore willing to show me some boxez