log☇︎
13800+ entries in 0.095s
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907066 << people who demand oddball instructions, can simply write own fpga payload and go happily on own path -- what am i missing ? ☝︎
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907058 << this is where i say 'wtf' . what am i missing here ? where and for what do you need the ieee erroneous-arithmetics liquishit ?! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-06 00:52 OriansJ: The Branch Delay slot should never been allowed and it just adds complexity to any bootstrap. The Multiply and Divide instructions of MIPS were just a bad idea and the DEC Alpha solution was a much better combination to go. The Exception style overflow pattern in MIPS is pure complexity and waste; the 68K series was so much closer to the optimal (The split Integer register and BCD support was a bad mistake that I am glad Cold Fire
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907042 << all of these archs were missing essential piece for sanity -- type tagging and bounds checking. ( i.e. if running ada or lisp 'costs extra' on your iron vs. c , your arch is broken ! ) ☝︎
asciilifeform: i.e. whole problem of 'bootstrap', imho, is misformulated . why to fixate on thompsonism and then bring up multi-decamegabyte kernel fulla liquishit, on which to run overflowandcrashlang (aka 'c') compiler with which to then build moar of same, etc
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 23:25 OriansJ: well, I guess a really important question to ask is at what level of lithography people here actually have trust? (1 transistor, AND Gate in TTL, 100 Gate ALU, 1000 Gate ULA, 10000 Gate Asic, .... FPGA, 1B+ gate CPU, etc)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907037 << i recommend to read the logs re 'specificity' ( picture yourself baking a sabotaged fpga , for victim whose gate net you do not know in advance. what would you put in it ? ) ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 22:53 OriansJ: BingoBoingo: I agree POSIX has a great many flaws but there are some ideas inside of it worth preserving; especially in regards to bootstrapping.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907008 << asciilifeform is quite curious re what 'ideas in posix worth preserving', i can't think of even one ☝︎
diana_coman: last time I used WU was ~10 years ago and it was from EU to USA so not much help for current use case
diana_coman: tbf unsure how smooth either wire or wu would be from UK given additional currency headache; hence my hesitation to add this one to the to do list but by the looks of it, if this continues with no real bids even on quite competitive prices, I guess I'll have to.
Mocky: I've gotta run though, worn motorcycle tire needs wrangling
OriansJ: spyked: well the iCE40 is a good starting point for now and I guess we can agree on that. You are right about not having to be portable but I prefer building a stack that can be used to defend against a Nexus Intruder program class attack.
diana_coman: it seems quite surprising to me there isn't more interest but tbf I haven't used local WU ever, would need to even look it up, lol. ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 15:20 mircea_popescu: the best example i can think of is the code on the old handheld calculators. THAT is a general purpose os : it makes no assumption about the downstream, merely fully, cleanly and directly exposes the hardware.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 23:25 OriansJ: well, I guess a really important question to ask is at what level of lithography people here actually have trust? (1 transistor, AND Gate in TTL, 100 Gate ALU, 1000 Gate ULA, 10000 Gate Asic, .... FPGA, 1B+ gate CPU, etc)
OriansJ: The Branch Delay slot should never been allowed and it just adds complexity to any bootstrap. The Multiply and Divide instructions of MIPS were just a bad idea and the DEC Alpha solution was a much better combination to go. The Exception style overflow pattern in MIPS is pure complexity and waste; the 68K series was so much closer to the optimal (The split Integer register and BCD support was a bad mistake that I am glad Cold Fire ☟︎
OriansJ: I've been exploring the logs and one thing you may wish to know about bootstrapping MIPS is humans writing assembly need only 7 registers (I round up to 16 to include Stack pointer(s) and Condition register(s) and if my goal was optimize for C compiler performance, I would have gone with 64 registers (architecturally unified between the Integer unit and the Floating point unit but leveraging the trick of the DEC Alpha 21264 and ☟︎
OriansJ: well, I guess a really important question to ask is at what level of lithography people here actually have trust? (1 transistor, AND Gate in TTL, 100 Gate ALU, 1000 Gate ULA, 10000 Gate Asic, .... FPGA, 1B+ gate CPU, etc) ☟︎☟︎☟︎
bvt: i guess asciilifeform will comment tomorrow if he feels good enough (gute besserung!); i have to go to sleep right now
OriansJ: hence why I assumed a hardware mechanism for loading paper tape into memory and setting all registers to zero and then boot; as it eliminates the bootloader and the operating system entirely from the question.
bvt: yes, i agree that a simple and clear boot sequence is a requirement
OriansJ: actually I am extremely familiar with ARMv7's instruction encodings as I have been porting M2-Planet to it recently (boy it is a shitshow)
bvt: unfortunately i've worked mostly with x86, so the only other assembler i've seen was arm64 (did not look at it's instruction encoding though)
bvt: i.e. re 1 you opted for architecture where instruction encoding is easy to do by hand
BingoBoingo: This isn't quite an area I'm incredibly specialized in, hopefully others can chime in.
OriansJ: BingoBoingo: I agree POSIX has a great many flaws but there are some ideas inside of it worth preserving; especially in regards to bootstrapping. ☟︎☟︎
OriansJ: BingoBoingo: well I guess we need to discuss short term vs long term expectations as those pieces seem to be multiple pieces pulling in different directions ☟︎
bvt: of course, ada/gnat is too complex for bootstrapping as-is, but i guess equivalent safety properties would be still required
a111: Logged on 2019-03-18 15:31 asciilifeform: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/03/mes-part-1-stage0/#selection-29.94-29.340 << imho ~100% of the attempts on record , made exactly same mistake -- they assumed that 'architecture-specific aspects creep into the design of the boostrapping process' only concerns ~what is there~ in the arch, and not ~what is not there~ (e.g. sane memory management, type tags) . if you dun put the complexity of certain necessary sanities where it belongs -- i
OriansJ: So I hear there is some interest in bootstrapping architectures here ☟︎
mp_en_viaje: imagine this wonder : no more wings, airplane is a tube, 20 or 50 or w/e rings, with a dumbwaiter in the middle i guess, people seated around it. a rocket basically, it goes up and then down.
asciilifeform: i think possibly my calibration is off, when measured was 38. but still feels like inside of head is swamp water
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, yes, and it is fine russian. i daresay it is finer english.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-04 12:04 diana_coman: re relish or not I quite suspect many would be way happier if they didn't "have to unique"
mp_en_viaje: the dood is al lproud, "you come back, because is good! yes ?" "yes, i say". "i know you, i see. you like, you come back" "precisely"
mp_en_viaje: so we turn back and buy two more. buttered pretzels, wunderbar, i hand out a five they give out some coins change.
mp_en_viaje: but anyway, day 1, i'm walking through subway, buy a pretzel at random stand. i take one bite and recall girl off escalator. "taste this!"
mp_en_viaje: like i said somewhere about films, some people were put on this earth to make cinmatographic equipment ; some people to use said equipment to actually make films.
BingoBoingo: I am very glad indeed
mp_en_viaje: just a buncha lebanese (i think) doods, with the dedication, permitting mediterranean tradition to finally meet frankish iron.
mp_en_viaje: and the bread... the bread... i mean, specialist slave, been making bread for years, this is better. FIRST TIME anything like this ever occured.
mp_en_viaje: i mean, their sandwiches use the same brie i use. they have pastrami with horseradish mustard i wouldn't be ashamed to offer to visiting lords at my own table. nothing's older than an hour maybe, the romaigne as crispy as if i just picked it myself
mp_en_viaje: oh holy god, i have found the deli fucking mecca.
diana_coman: re relish or not I quite suspect many would be way happier if they didn't "have to unique" ☟︎
mp_en_viaje: i want my goat milk kefir ;/
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-04#1906877 << i don't have selection installed. I add custom id tags when i want to link to a specific thing in my articles ☝︎
lobbesbot: trinque: Sent 16 hours and 22 minutes ago: <spyked> could pl0x look at deedbot deposits when you get the time? fyi, I started two !!deposit and only did the latter; can cancel the former, I'll redo it later if needed
a111: Logged on 2019-04-03 08:41 spyked: !Qlater tell trinque could pl0x look at deedbot deposits when you get the time? fyi, I started two !!deposit and only did the latter; can cancel the former, I'll redo it later if needed
asciilifeform: the deadsouls, i suspect, know what they are, and dun particularly relish having mirror held up to their snouts
asciilifeform: fwiw i do find it interesting that when you offer to heathen 'cheap unique' -- to bake a pubkey -- or even to post under the fucking name his progenitors gave him -- typical specimen runs screaming
asciilifeform: the disease sequelae of 'illusion of unique' i'ma not replay, mp_en_viaje covered subj to death
asciilifeform: 'unique personalities' i'ma leave to the gods. for man imho suffices to find coupla unique primes...
Mocky: I've got to step out for a bit now
Mocky: I see what you mean by the driver of the error, but I don't see how height, numeric value etc. have to do with personality.
mp_en_viaje: act that little story i described (because "anyone could have done that") but rather the incidental ~exact number~ representin my height, or the ~exact numeric value~ of what i said in private sometime, or (as per anglo-bank logic) the string that's my mother's maiden name
mp_en_viaje: i said i don't think so, and held them out for his inspection. he thanked me for my kindnss, i explained it's not so much kindness as duty, and we parted amicably.
mp_en_viaje: so today, i took elevator in neue rathaus (it's a thing in munchen, irrelevant specifically). this involved paying a fee. the man i paid it to made change from 52 for 12 by handing me a 20 euro and a 100 euro bill.
mp_en_viaje: that'll pass. now, i propose to you that this is a parameter in the first place, in that it consists of a matter of degrees, however combined. it's entirely quantitative, there's no qualitative portion to it. and it is secret, because her belief is that another wouldn't know which valus the parameter takes, nothing else.
mp_en_viaje: i say it can't exist, you wish to see why not. i'm allowed to ask for it no ?
mp_en_viaje: there can't be, you see, such a thing as a secret parameter. and this applies equally well to the "bombing stationary object" problem touched above, and to the "i will make website ban so and so after so and so" anti-mp historical fetlifish computer "engineering", and to the romcom notion of "deeply personal experience" and so following.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 16:35 asciilifeform: 'erryone hates it, all the lifts smell of piss. oh btw, where is the lift here, i gotta go'
asciilifeform: all i got is naggum's http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-507.293-507.989
asciilifeform: i dun even have sharp enuff drill to get a picture where they ~have~ a 'notion of personal identity'
mp_en_viaje: and i suspect they all rest on fundamental goanga whereby "but muh sikrit parameters"
asciilifeform: typical homo programmicus living today, i suspect, will live & die without ever encountering a 1980s-style sys where 'understand from first principles' even conceptually seems like a possibility
asciilifeform: it is the programmers, i suspect, and not even the earthfeminists, who are at the forefront of 'climbing back into the trees' in this sense
a111: Logged on 2019-03-12 22:09 asciilifeform: i think aristotle actually had , sadly, correct notion, where doing some kinds of work actually makes you dumber
mp_en_viaje: and i don't mean JUST bitcoin. think of the problem in terms of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-31#1906304 : fetlife hires engineer to add "impossible to guess" parameters to its laughingstock of a codebase. mp is unincluded in the ☝︎
asciilifeform: for all i know, the heathens have moved 100% to hearn's 'pay to ip via ssl' or similar horror
asciilifeform: that 1 , i dun even think about much, given trb dun suffer from it
mp_en_viaje: but yes. lotta what is protocol is promise. starting with "segwit" bs, i won't unearth the threads.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: same convention. i was parsing 'c' as positional 'a, b, c'
asciilifeform: still remains the case that good % of what is typically thought of as the protocol, is actually promise ( i.e. it is trivial for a constructed noad to feed 'allcomers' 1 mempool, with stale shit, while he himself mines from entirely other set, that he dun relay to anyone , etc )
mp_en_viaje: (i guess they don't use the same convention in us f, analysis)
mp_en_viaje: C. "i am safe from missile strike, my cellphone inserts rnd(0,C) error re position on each call"
asciilifeform: was aboutta add -- from pov of external observer (i.e. has no moles) a 'miner cartelnet' will simply look like 'miner with n public intakes'
asciilifeform: i.e. if you have moles in the closed miner wot nets -- then elementarily
asciilifeform: a good % of what those folx do, i suspect can only be explained via 'spam logic'
asciilifeform: also gotta note, i did not posit that it 'works' (in the sense of 'they make bank'), only that 'they think it worx' ( a la spam )
a111: Logged on 2019-04-03 19:23 asciilifeform: diana_coman: fwiw i virtually never saw any of mine on bci & similar heathen www, until mined
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906663 << i see ~daily. incl today, bchain.info had within second o frelay. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-03 17:39 asciilifeform: i'd be quite curious to hear what trinque says about all of this; i expect today he does the most on-chain work of anyone here
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906661 << i do not believe so ; not in the sense he does not do a lot. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-03 17:13 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906628 << to expand on this: say you issued tx1 where input i and output o1. he sees it, it goes to back of queue, as uninteresting, he does not mine it himself, but does relay to competitors. but if you also issue a and tx2, where input i and output o2, o2 != o1 , ~then~ tx2 goes to front of his queue, as by mining it he can throw caltrop to the competing miners , invalidating their chain
a111: Logged on 2019-04-03 14:58 asciilifeform: so far the closest thing i have to a hypothesis, is that the fattest chinese want you to issue a set of conflicting tx so the thinner ones end up with longer invalidated chains
a111: Logged on 2019-04-03 14:54 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906616 << this is a well-known effect ( most famously, possibly involved in how 'bitbet' burned down ) and i've personally observed it erry single time i sent coin in past coupla yrs . tx dun move until you send a conflicting tx . why the miners do this -- i still do not know
a111: Logged on 2019-04-03 15:05 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906605 << i entirely agree that reading human text in typewriter chars is painful. gotta point out tho , that 'truetype' monstrosity is not justified thereby, it is possible to have horizontally-variable bitmap font (simply store the # of horiz. pixels as matrix , for 'kerning' space , and otherwise same )
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906632 << i have no confidence in tghe truetype/whatevr "standards", a lot of actual experience with both empire and alt-empire standards guts has cured me for three lifetimes. ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, well munchen whatever. i dunno, i guss maybe not.
mp_en_viaje: i'm not saying they all have to participate or any insane shit like that. but if they can have 500 hypovereisbank offices, they could have ONE coffee house. for those incomprehensible weirdos who go there, what of it.
mp_en_viaje: it's just fucking weird, to not do it AT ALL. i mean cosmopolitan literally means, "which includes alt-stream competence"
mp_en_viaje: i'm not bemoaning my fate or anything, jus' sayin; for the records.
mp_en_viaje: i have nfi how this works, i NEVER saw a car here with wooden bench inside and fuck you. they understand what chairs are, every bank, every god damned nothing-in-particular shop has proper chairs in there. they have furniture shops selling actual chairs.
mp_en_viaje: i marched the girls for ~4 hours through historic downtown, tryina find one. found none.
mp_en_viaje: oh, right, i tell you what! THERE IS NO SUCH THING!
diana_coman: I suspect they ...don't have money to meet there ?
mp_en_viaje: the food was ok, but the service kinda meh. i dunno, they have a problem here it seems with not hirin genough waiters.
asciilifeform: diana_coman, spyked : at this pt , 5 yrs in, i'm satisfied that i understand how ~trb~ pushes tx; problem lies in the zoo of ??? 'nodes', what do ~they~ do with it.
mp_en_viaje: if i set out to find "mom's garage, seattle" i'd be in ~same position.