129000+ entries in 2.838s
OneEyed: Smoovious: so don'
t you know any alcoolic person?
OneEyed: midnightmagic: sure, people can be lying, maybe he didn'
t write that, you can never be certain if you haven'
t witnessed it yourself
midnightmagic: Smoovious: In reality, people should have been more cognisant of the risks: you can'
t "assume it was" as though you are certain. You just have to evaluate the risk and behave accordingly.
midnightmagic: OneEyed: I would be interested to know about the "name of a guy who didn'
t even speak English" part. Where did you read that?
OneEyed: Smoovious: sure, as I don'
t expect water to turn into wine on my table, if it does, well, so much the better
OneEyed: Smoovious: a lot of *facts* call for scam. He took the money. He met only selected people in Vegas when he told he would meet anyone willing to, and some people have testified that they asked him to meet. He pretended that Trendon Shavers was a DBA, and that it was the name of a guy who didn'
t even speak English.
midnightmagic: OneEyed: I just told you. I don'
t believe it's a non-scam. Why do you think this is a binary choice?
midnightmagic: OneEyed: Don'
t get me wrong. The balance is on the scam side.
OneEyed: midnightmagic: what I'm saying is that in the absence of proof that it is a scam and in the absence of proof that it isn'
t, given the current situation, it is most likely a scam
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: Your -pr girl wasn'
t the only one calling pirate a scam. There were lots of other people. On the other hand, there's still no hard evidence that anyone has seen that it is. Not yet. The only thing going for the notion is time, but there are alternative explanations.
OneEyed: Or does that mean that he doesn'
t know competent people, or that those people wouldn'
t touch CPA with a 10 foot pole?
OneEyed: I don'
t know, but he would probably know people trusting him to get a healthy asset and that he trusts to hand it over
OneEyed: One thing I don'
t understand about usagi desire to close CPA: why doesn'
t he hand it over to someone else if he doesnt' want to manage it anymore?
OneEyed: mircea_popescu: I hadn'
t read the whole thread, I just read your new local rules indeed :)
OneEyed: mircea_popescu: don'
t act as if you were *the* messiah announcing what's true and what's not :)
mircea_popescu: people never noticed before mostly cause i wasn'
t around to point it out.
OneEyed: mircea_popescu: if you refer to claims made outside of the contract, I have to agree with you, however, if you stick to the contract, I don'
t see he defrauded people.
mircea_popescu: that people in general don'
t bother is true, but it's still what it is.
OneEyed: mircea_popescu: yes, I understand. But even knowing he doesn'
t own some, as long as the investors get exactly what they paid for, i.e. coupons indexed on PPS 1MH/s, I don'
t see as a violation of the contract itself. But I won'
t redo the discussion here :)
mircea_popescu: i belong to those who knew he doesn'
t and pretty much said so 6 months ago
mircea_popescu: maybe if someone half-competent took over management. which isn'
t likely given the sort of money it makes.
mircea_popescu: <PsychoticBoy> I personally got more than 1.5k btc in glbse assets so plz let glbse live << doesn'
t seem likely at this point.
OneEyed: (I haven'
t seen the message on the forum)
OneEyed: I don'
t have any share managed by Goat (nor any share at all at this time), so I can'
t see the message
OneEyed: Smoovious: let's agree to disagree here, I just read the contract, I don'
t see a fraud, but that is my interpretation. People should learn to read contracts too before investing.
OneEyed: And handling the brokering part to Goat this way is wrong: not only Nefario didn'
t use a secure way of identifying the claims, prevent double claims and so on, but also he forces people to go to Goat, while some of them had maybe invested in Goat assets only because GLBSE acted as a middle man
femtotube: "Smoovious | and come on... I can'
t be the only one who saw how obvious..." Every one with a half a brain must have understood it but you see, lots of pole have coin in his crap so...
OneEyed: Smoovious: did he not pay and say "sorry guys, I'm broke and I didn'
t invest your money"? *That* would be a scam, and I would be 100% on your side. But here, now that people know that he doesn'
t have mining hardware, he cannot even say "My hardware broke, sorry, no returns until I get a replacement"
OneEyed: Smoovious: sure, I don'
t know anything about their dispute. Except that I've seen that Nefario did not explain why he did this, and I lost the trust I had in GLBSE at this time, since I don'
t know if the same kind of dispute could happen with other asset owners or not.
OneEyed: That was my only point. If he had invested into a mining operation, then the investors would not have lost or gained one satoshi. So I don'
t see why investors are complaining.
OneEyed: The fact that you now *know* that he didn'
t buy hardware should not change anything of the perception you have of the contract and the expected returns, since they are equivalent.
OneEyed: (when I say "work", I mean "work for him", because perpetual also means that he has to pay forever if he doesn'
t buyback)
OneEyed: Was it supposed to be a pass-through or a hardware owner? I still can'
t understand what investors expected. One or the other or any of them or both.
OneEyed: The two alternatives are really different, because in one case there are assets (that the bond owners couldn'
t claim anyway), and in the second case there are none
OneEyed: Seriously, I think that investors are to blame here. Especially considering this is Goat, whose morality doesn'
t appear to be that high :)
OneEyed: PsychoticBoy: doesn'
t he? I thought he told he was the majority investor or owner of a massive mining operation?
OneEyed: "Mining bond" doesn'
t mean you'll mine yourself. Or does it? Or can you invest in a mining operation? Directly? Also indirectly? What is acceptable and what is not? How does that make even a tiny difference for the investors? This is a bond, not a share, you don'
t own the hardware assets in any way
PsychoticBoy: <imsaguy2> <Chaang-Noi> off for sex << generally those that say that, aren'
t getting it<< Or paying for it ;)
imsaguy2: please don'
t tell me he pulled a jesus
imsaguy2: <Chaang-Noi> off for sex << generally those that say that, aren'
t getting it
OneEyed: Fuck me, I hadn'
t seen NYAN.B closing announce. I've missed yesterday's movie of the day
imsaguy2: Azelphur, even if not illegal, they won'
t have the funds to defend themselves
imsaguy2: right now it isn'
t obvious because diff and price are going up
DeaDTerra: I am not leaving, just stepping down for a while ^^ I need to finish school and I need to see how the market develops. I will keep running my own projects behind the scene ;) so don'
t worry about me
DeaDTerra: Instead of backing the bonds with hardware you are backing it with private capital that doesn'
t make you a scammer.
OneEyed: Chaang-Noi: he didn'
t, he just explained how people seem to see it
DeaDTerra: The idea is if he doesn'
t invest into mining then he might not be able to pay it back hence he's a scamer.
OneEyed: I don'
t think why Chaang-Noi would be labelled a scammer for not investing into mining equipment. I've just posted in the thread asking how it would make a difference.
imsaguy2: and if you pay everyone back, by definition, that isn'
t a ponzi
DeaDTerra: You are a scammer, why? because you can'
t prove that you aren'
t. Well I haven'
t scammed anyone yet? doesn'
t matter you can'
t prove that you won'
t rg: Chaang-Noi: won'
t you default if pirate never pays?
Chaang-Noi: I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this was just a bad decision on your part. But several people have already told me privately that they believe you are conspiring with Nefario to appear to pressure him into an agreement that we all know Goat won'
t accept to shift the blame to Goat. I hope that's not true and that this was just an honest lapse in judgment.
pigeons: ok well i prefered ".A won'
t default cause you can use .B to cover" over "trust me"
pigeons: well just because the other funds you ran went out of business doesn'
t mean i don'
t trust you that NYAN.A is in zero danger, but the agreement was that NYAN.B could be sold and given to .A investors to ensure that?
pigeons: usagi: i'm serious i can'
t read every line of the channel and the forum. can you answer?
mircea_popescu: if A doesn'
t get full capital back after he closes B he's getting -'d to hell.
novusordo: dub: don'
t talk about /b/ outside of /b/, newfag
BTC-Mining: Well why doesn'
t he just regenerate the codes and send them encoded?
BTC-Mining: I can'
t have it loud enough without having the occasional blast shredding my eardrums.
dub: BTC-Mining: aren'
t you chinese? should be familiar with that concept
BTC-Mining: I don'
t like that Black Mages version too much.
BTC-Mining: I just don'
t have so much time to play everything.
guruvan: hmm...good point (can'
t as easily.....though it could happen, but then it's a game of who ever has the most funds wins)
mircea_popescu: people who borrow shares on fixed time intervals can'
t.
guruvan: oh, I'm sure THAT desire isn'
t lacking around here Smoovious
guruvan: wouldn'
t take that much on GLBSE
Bugpowder: I haven'
t don'
t much on IRC since 96-01
jurov: sorry that i don'
t have inkjet anymore... dunno how it would work with laser
jcpham: i like
t print out forum threads as toilet paper
dub: im just commenting that there are a large number of accusation threads that don'
t seem to have been actioned
DeaDTerra: Good just want to make that clear so I don'
t end up being called a scammer or something like that.
DeaDTerra: how things should be run, instead of promising things you can'
t hold and then default
DeaDTerra: Yea :8, for the communities sake I would like to keep it going, but I don'
t have the time to keep the quality where I want it, and I don'
t want to offer a shitty service.
OneEyed: mircea_popescu: it depends, dodn'
t forget that if SatoshiDice were to stop paying people, word will spread very rapidly, since they use 0 confirmations payout is immediate
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining kinda why i like irc. the vast majority of scammers doesn'
t have the technical ability to hang out yet.
OneEyed: femtotube: I didn'
t "work" on the kernel, I wrote a driver for the watchdog of my dedicated server. I usually contribute when I need something, except for some projects that I find fun for some time, like c:geo
mircea_popescu: thing is, nobody can code, nobody wants to work, everyone wants to sit tits up and go "oh, these things that people pay money for aren'
t worth money"
markac: femtotube: Sorry, can'
t calculate that.
markac: femtotube: Sorry, can'
t calculate that.
mircea_popescu: and as such im not doing it. if client doesn'
t trust broker client doesn'
t use broker.
OneEyed: usagi: so it doesn'
t exist
copumpkin: so you don'
t have to reveal your entire holdings to your clients, as a broker
OneEyed: mircea_popescu: (you can only prove that you bought a share, but that doesn'
t show that you haven'
t sold it)
OneEyed: usagi: the problem with GLBSE and MPEX is that they act as a broker, in addition to being an exchange. As long as they don'
t keep an outside copy of the up-to-date investors portfolios, they disappearing make their investors broke
OneEyed: I thought friedcat reference was some kind of a joke I didn'
t get. Is there really someone nicknamed friedcat?