log☇︎
127500+ entries in 0.078s
mircea_popescu: as if there's a set of recipes to choose from or what ?
asciilifeform: ( there's ~1 recipe )
asciilifeform: the notable bit is that the brits used same exact recipe as stalin later
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, there comes a time when the poor will be rendered for fat. it's what it is.
mircea_popescu: the british don't really want to talk about the great potato famine ; and the usg likes to pretend the irish that ran off to new york didn't go through the exact same wringer.
asciilifeform: aha i think we had this thread
mircea_popescu: and ESPECIALLY it goes with industrialization, which is to say,attempting to break out of it.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-07 18:15 mircea_popescu: there is nothing necessary about this cycle of wasteful idiocy. beat your swedish civilised wife whenever she deos the dumb.
asciilifeform: ( famine really goes with agrarianism , iron law , on account of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-07#1766429 . it's what their 'boom/bust cycle' loox like. ) ☝︎
mircea_popescu: 1940, kids were malnourished all over the world, the pretense that germany somehow stood out at any point is ridiculous.
mircea_popescu: and don't tell me "hey, it's only british empire when we want to pretend like largest in history, it's really its own thing at all other points", ima barf.
mircea_popescu: moreover this whole "oh germany was starving"... dude, it's the 40s. new york was fucking starving, gimme a break. who wasn't starving ?
mircea_popescu: "oh if some fucktard who thinks he's a jew because his mother's an idiot says he is holocaustoffended ima say i studied goebbels!!1". wtf already.
mircea_popescu: in any case, the history of interwar germany is interesting as a topic of study, rather than a topic of conversational macguffins.
mircea_popescu: something like that.
asciilifeform: and all sudden reichs get built, in lenin's words , 'not from new brick but from the smashed planks of the old shithouse' or how did it go.
asciilifeform: ( tho in modern parlance tends to be applied to paint, and other items that get literally sprayed using air )
mircea_popescu: one didn't make the hitler chancellor ; the other did. it's all.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is entirely no difference between usg pantsuit cca 2015 and germany nazi cca 1933.
mircea_popescu: (no good equiv to ro "spulbera", it's built out of powder with the italian s' device (svenuto, sfortunato etc) to denote that which wind does to dust and power to incosequentialness)
asciilifeform: eh this is rather like 'at all points aids patient could grow white cells again and then fungus will die '
mircea_popescu: bluster and pretense aside, the original socialists were never all that secure in their "reich". at all points coulda ran into some republic and be spulberati off the flow of history exactly like the pantsuit in 2016.
mircea_popescu: hitler blabbering about how the army betrayed him and shoulda killed them all like stalin (really, it was earlier than stalin time, but you can't say "like trotsky" can you now) is exactly a fruit off of this.
mircea_popescu: usual anachronism, "this toe sock works great as a soup starter so that's what it was". not THEN it wasn't lel. then it was a complicated thing. such as for isntance, a desire of the new socialist strep to make "culture just as good" as the guys they were trying to replace, landeschnekt and ritters dominating the army.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i think proposing goebbels is a sort of ziggler-skinner is dismissive to the man.
asciilifeform: from beneath a tall pile of chomsky & other modernolade.
asciilifeform: i'd be surprised if 'no original' , given the comment re 'I found was that (1) a whole bunch of nutcases thought that only neo-Nazis could be interested in Joseph Goebbels' works and movies...'
mircea_popescu: you want to "study goebbels", you're going to review a lot of old celluloid reel, read journals, stuff like that. there's no substitute, wut.
mircea_popescu: going to do this 12yo inane shit sorta thing.
mircea_popescu: and i find it superlatively dubious that "i have made a study" relies on having reviewed no original materials but read chomsky's as cliffnotes. this is no way to get anywhere, and i suspect a large portion of chomsky detractors are actually almost-intelligent folk who tried to use him in this manner, got hurt in the process, and decided to assign blame, if possible to the tool they misused. chomsky is fine, but not if you're
mircea_popescu: no, newton did not sit down to hate the jews.
mircea_popescu: suss was exactly 1940. and the hell goebbels had to go through to get the cast (they were famous actors, and more interested in hollywood bux than anything) is a very fine entry point for one to understand just how weak and circumstantial the reich was, and just how much accident and fortune played into the good doctor's work
asciilifeform: or hm, nm, the 'last movie' is not 'suss' ( which is circa '40)
asciilifeform: i was waiting for mircea_popescu to notice the bigger oddity
mircea_popescu: it's true that hitler was a bit of a literalist, and kept liking these barely-cinematic mechanicist pieces of nonsense ; but that doesn't make the opposition stand like he tries to make it stand.
mircea_popescu: leaving aside the remarkable poverty of reference, i'd like at least for the few popitems he uses to be at the fucking least correct! ☟︎
mircea_popescu: with similar "historical fact". it's in no sense factual, goebbels' jewel, and the item for which he worked his ass off, has jew right in the fucking title.
mircea_popescu: that aside, there's a different serious problem : "Joseph Goebbels were _not_ concerned with propaganda towards the Jews. this is an historical fact." is what he says, but he says this in the exact manner of the man he otherplaces despises, "who forms a knowledge without having had the curiosity to study". the reason i even wrote http://trilema.com/2017/jud-suss/ is ~specifically because~ there's a lot of similar ignoramuses
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, i can't miss that for someone who read and traveled and so on as you say, naggum has a lot of trouble destructuring nubbinisms.
mircea_popescu: a) germany won ww2, which is why us is trying to be alt-germany not alt-britain ; and why hitlers' goals (anihilation of british empire) were delivered upon ; b) the war was by very far the best thing that couldf ever have happened to russians, as individual people.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform apparently there was also some private acrymony. anyway, the piece reads like the flailing of pantsuit flavours.
asciilifeform: https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3147630043965732@naggum.no.html << moar echoes . possibly today no one will even be able to say , for a fact, wat.
mircea_popescu: same reason, gat smiles. "it's because the alternative is..."
mircea_popescu: the reason smart people condescend to use bad tools is because they have no others. why do we use gnat or gcc ?
mircea_popescu: so i think the correct working of the system is well understood. similarily, that this system is not implemented correctly is also obvious. in this context, gat's one liner is perfectly sensible, what's the problem with it ?
asciilifeform: same item. asphalteur truck just hasn't come yet.
mircea_popescu: and for this failure it gets punished out of existence.
asciilifeform: when you drive over a hole, it also doesn't usually speak and explain why it decided to be a hole
mircea_popescu: what did you think explanation is, lmao. to MY STANDARD.
mircea_popescu: let him try again.
asciilifeform: oddly enuff it is cop who 'explains', 'от имени Союза Советских Социалистических Республик , i now get in your way , for your having exceeded 10 times the speed of an unladen snail on this tuesday...'
mircea_popescu: let the ~actual~ 15yos be in the position where they have to explain themselves, and receive in exchange clarifications of the rules and punishments as appropriate.
mircea_popescu: you drive, "cop" gets in the way. does cop explain to you why he got in the way or does cop expect you to explain what it was you were doing to him ?
mircea_popescu: fine, take a different tack.
asciilifeform: i dun have nearly enuff contact with the tv insanity
asciilifeform: sometimes i wonder if it's actually mircea_popescu working without gloves on the hot smoking factory floor of the insane asylum, and asciilifeform somehow is the one looking down from dirigible
mircea_popescu: who explains events to whom is the entire construct here. let the dumb explain their dumbness to me.
mircea_popescu: quite the fucking point.
mircea_popescu: bitch, i'm not explaining jack shit to you. YOU fucking explain to me how exactly you ended up with all this crap.
mircea_popescu: can you picture the hordes of tv watchers gathering me up and setting up a spectacle (like those inane 1980s lassie-in-court tv productions) whereby some pompous douche ("a judge!!11") asks me to... explain... what happened ?
mircea_popescu: for convenience, let's say it's a big deal. no need to specify what.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform consider the following situation : something happens.
mircea_popescu: let the monkeys negotiate from this position where they have to explain themselves to my standard.
mircea_popescu: the whole fucking idea of republic is to meaningfully unite the smart and destroy the fakeout "unity" of the monkeys.
mircea_popescu: in point of fact that's exactly how it works : if you convince the smart folk to be separate and you unite the monkeys into one "state", then yes you get the size disparity problem.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the one with 'but they'll be destitute' ?
asciilifeform: seems to have a twatter , http://www.xahlee.org/subscribe.html
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't see how the linked item supports the theory.
asciilifeform: i've looked for how to get him before.
mircea_popescu: well, then it's his job to invite himself.
asciilifeform: the sad thing is that he doesn't seem to have any obvious means of contact
mircea_popescu: (amusingly, if you ask the last years' crop of retards, "things were always that way". perhaps because their inumerate mothers went to yoga classes in the same 1974s and drank smothies)
mircea_popescu: "since about say 2010, there's a new generation of programers, whose mantra is “help”, “be positive”. They shy away from negative things, even occasional swearing. I consider them scumbags." << http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-07#1766301 not even terrible ; anyone know how ti invite the dood ? ☝︎
mircea_popescu: i'll confess i'm not very impressed with the nonsense. it's one thing to flame some idiot into the ground, but it's not clear to me gat/garrett met the criteria.\
asciilifeform: ( all i got is archaeology, i wasn't there; never met anybody who was there , only have the shards of the old pots. )
asciilifeform: that was the picture i got. largely from the c.l.l articles.
mircea_popescu: https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3242228166365080@naggum.no.html << sample eggregious piece ; dated 2002 so i guess the theory here is gat got depressed cca 2001 pissed off naggum who didn't know how to express self better ?
asciilifeform: http://www.flownet.com/gat/jpl-lisp.html << the most well-known piece by gatt/garrett , 'lisping at jpl'
asciilifeform: phase transition, of sorts.
mircea_popescu: so all that happened in one year ?
asciilifeform: 1990s didn't really end till 2001 , lol
mircea_popescu: (this being 2000, seems to contradict the theory ?)
asciilifeform: then item went to shit, for general usgification 1990s reasons
mircea_popescu: he also wrote a lisp-is-faster-than-c item back in the days the microsoft hired hands were pissing all over o'reilly&marc "my middle name is cocksucker" andressen's java ☟︎
asciilifeform: gatt (renamed himself, today garrett ) wrote a large pile of 'lisp is dead, woe is me, once there were things but never again' 'emo' screeds on comp.lang.lisp
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's his issue with gat anyway, i always thought he was one of the more level headed mid generation lisper folk.
asciilifeform: ( there are salvageable organs in the scheme corpse. but there is not imho a usable per-se schemetron. )
mircea_popescu: there's this observation that "the dumb woman's ideal is to live in K-selected society so there's no infibulation or tit pounding ; but that then she personally defects to pursue r-selection". this may or may not be true as applied, but it exists as a trope, the forever wank of the insufficient, be it a dumb woman, a dysfunctional adolescent (the neil simon type, that then "goes to city and becomes his TRUE SELF writing for n
a111: Logged on 2018-01-07 20:10 mircea_popescu: ostile to those who simply did not like your idea to begin with) may be too much for some brittle egos [...] while the Scheme community encourages people to go off and implement their _own_ Scheme, the Common Lisp standard is so big and mature that those who want to reinvent the wheel, or at least a portion of the wheel (like an Arc :), usually fail miserably."
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-07#1766487 << one of the recurring motifs in the naggum threads is the scheme thing. scheme got stuck in its development (politically, rather than technically, it got orphaned and lacked a mircea_popescu at a critical time in its gestation ) and ended up in the hands of 'perfect circles' people ☝︎
asciilifeform: ( and when this actually happens, it is as part of a great catastrophe , not something to be cheered )
asciilifeform: but no, nobody gets to reinvent in the idjit-schoolboy-dreams sense of 'and then they forgot how to do it and i Show Them and Become Newton' or whichever
a111: Logged on 2018-01-07 20:06 mircea_popescu: you will never fucking reinvent infinitesimal calculus. for one thing, it's fine as it is (you fuck with it, it get heavy, and you still no hit largest side of barn), and for the other fuck you and your psychological needs. you were born late rather than early, if you don't like it should have been born earlier. invent something else or don't, either way.
asciilifeform: the subtle mistakes are the moar lethal.
asciilifeform: right, but that one's sorta obvious
mircea_popescu: and so on. yes, reification is the (forced, sure, but still) mistake of the drowning.
mircea_popescu: and the humanization of the pleb.
asciilifeform: ( the supurious concretization of 'future' i suspect is a root philosophical ill of 20th c, like the humanization of computer )
mircea_popescu: sure. im not even persuaded this is any kind of unfortunate.
asciilifeform: future is where people are stuck moving to.