117000+ entries in 2.642s
mjr___: facebook, etc isn'
t working yet
parseval: Submitting things doesn'
t work
furuknap: Yeah... Well, the problem is, I don'
t understand the exchange business much so I find it extremely hard to evaluate shares. I bought a few more in support of Neotrix than from a hope of profit.
furuknap: "Yeah, but we gots skillz". No you don'
t. You're trained monkeys, just like me. We suck at business and need extensive training to succeed.
furuknap: Why to tech people handle business stuff? They wouldn'
t want a BA to come in to their data center and start mucking around. Why do they assume that it's OK for them to try it at business?
furuknap: Damn, I want to short some shares that aren'
t shortable.
furuknap: It is more profitable in a two-year timeframe with all the assumptions coming true. If any of them don'
t then all hell breaks loose...
furuknap: I can'
t control what people do. I can only give them the numbers.
assbot: !ticker <exchange> <ticker> (desc: returns current ticker values, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !
t}
furuknap: I just need a number to illustrate reinvestment cost to maintain hashrate, but my Google-foo couldn'
t find a friedcat mention of that number.
furuknap: Didn'
t I read that ASICMiner can put 1TH online for around $10K?
furuknap: Actually, since 10% means 20% per month, 5% would be better, but I don'
t want to be too unrealistic.
furuknap: Sure, and some weeks, it may be a bit lower, but doesn'
t really matter, I'm just picking some random scenarios for an article.
furuknap: Not looking for formulas right now, and difficulty really isn'
t part of that equation at all :-)
assbot: !ticker <exchange> <ticker> (desc: returns current ticker values, supported: MPEX, HAVELOCK, BTCTCO) {short: !
t}
Scrat: they also don'
t seem to last for more than a year
bdk_kluge: Oh. I don'
t know jack shit about diamonds, but he designed a ring for me something like a year ago and was pretty great throughout. I don'
t think he liked our design choices, though, lol
Namworld: I haven'
t really used the payment system
Namworld: I can'
t get BitStamp's IOUs or withdraw anything without trusting BitStamp IOUs
Namworld: He didn'
t trust the little girl
mircea_popescu: you don'
t even know who the fuck y is you have his btc
Namworld: You can'
t randomly end up with USD issued by your boss's little girl
Namworld: But it doesn'
t work like you said in #3
Namworld: But no one will accept it if they don'
t trust tradefortress as an issuer
Namworld: Well I didn'
t notice any kind of mixing...
Namworld: One BTC issued by Weexchange.co is different from 1 BTC issued by BitStamp. If you have 1 BTC issued by BitStamp, you can'
t trade it for someone wanting a Weexchange.co BTC
Namworld: I might be mistaken... but I didn'
t notice any such chain trust effect
cole_albon: mirce_popescu what do you mean by " system doesn'
t work"
mircea_popescu: anyway, moral of the story here being, "don'
t start revolutionary financial shit without an actual financial mind available to suckle on the cock of"
Namworld: dub, pretty much every exchange. They won'
t give you anything for entrusting them your funds
mircea_popescu: the real reason however is that the system doesn'
t work
Namworld: So typically people wouldn'
t expect interest.
mircea_popescu: Namworld i wouldn'
t deposit money in mtgox because the mtgox risk requires a premium
Namworld: So you wouldn'
t deposit money in MtGox because they don'
t pay interest on your balance?
Namworld: Those IOUs are no different than the balance at the exchange, which if it is showing 200 BTC, it means they owe you 200 BTC. They don'
t pay interest either on that balance. Same for Ripple IOUs.
Namworld: To be fair on point #2, the issuer doesn'
t get anything either out of the issued IOUs. It's not like it requires you to lend them money. It's more like "pay to the bearer X silver/gold coins" IOUs, like early banks did, before state money.
[\]: I wasn'
t a partner or anything
dub: mircea_popescu: I don'
t really see it in the current system but I'm not ruling out the utility of a !btc transaction system of some form
Namworld: I posted on the thread for my free XRP, didn'
t understand the system, left my XRP there
Namworld: Why do you insist on the fact I didn'
t use Ripple, I fuckin damn well used it, trading on the orderbook and sending money.
Namworld: I know that... doesn'
t change the fact I used all the damn system and it works the same way...
mircea_popescu: complete "i fucking don'
t understand what bitcoin is so here's a cat with a pancake on its head. just as good"
mircea_popescu: "Even Roger Ver, a.k.a. "Bitcoin Jesus" has to pay his supply chain to keep the Bitcoin Store running, so he can'
t use Bitcoins either. Roger Ver doesn'
t accept Bitcoin, he accepts US dollars from BitPay. If even Bitcoin Jesus isn'
t interested in Bitcoins themselves, then why not let customers use their local currencies from the get-go and take out the Bitcoin middleman?"
dub: I don'
t think thats what the system is intended for
mircea_popescu: i mean, remember that guy issued like 10k btc of debt to dozens of people didn'
t know about weach other ?
mircea_popescu: you don'
t trusty him with 10k out ofg 100 bn. you trust him wioth 10k total.
furuknap: Exactly. So, for anyone other than currency traders and speculators, I can'
t really see any benefit to Ripple. It doesn'
t have value beyond the value of a stamp, it doesn'
t solve any problems that haven'
t already been solved, and it's just another headache for users when they want to just pay the damn bill at the restaurant.
Namworld: That's not really because it wouldn'
t be great to easily move fiat around. It's because fiat holders are AML regulated.
Namworld: But again, it's kind of absurd... because it skip every darn anti-money laundering stuff. What kind of institution would start issuing IOUs on Ripple they can'
t track, and let anyone cash them in?
ericmuyser: that doesn'
t make it a currency? it's an asset
furuknap: Litecoin has been adopted! I'm a Litecoin fanboi so don'
t speak badly of my second mistress.
ericmuyser: and there's no reason you can'
t, it just hasn'
t been built yet
furuknap: And you have to trust that issuer. I understand so far. I just don'
t understand what it gives me as a normal person, having X of currency Y, beyond the ability to change X of Y to Z of W.
Namworld: But Ripple itself doesn'
t hold any money
furuknap: So... I start with 1 BTC. What benefit will Ripple give me that I can'
t get form just having and using my BTC?
Namworld: They can'
t track who traded the fiat and just add it back to an account? AML clusterfuck
furuknap: I still don'
t get it. I get an IUO from whom and why could that be worth squat to me?
furuknap: Wow. Crypto-trade may actually launch in less than 24 hours. I'd buy shares, but I can'
t seem to get my jaw back up from the floor.
Namworld: The thing is, XRP isn'
t really a currency. It's tokens to make transactions...
mircea_popescu: i'd blog about that retard but the problem is the 1% idiots that read trilema and don'
t understand wtf would probably triple his trafic
furuknap: I'm not joking, but despite having tried, I still don'
t understand Ripple.
furuknap: I haven'
t looked into that exchange at all, but the AM PT just recently launched so either someone is very stupid or very brave if this is a scam site.
Namworld: He just kind of carried on when GLBSE closed and couldn'
t bother when GLBSE disclosed the lists.
Namworld: Brendio didn'
t really disappear. He eventually showed up after harassing him.
mircea_popescu: i don'
t think at any point in the > 5000 years history of arbing
mircea_popescu: well, leaving aside that there isn'
t a 2nd mpex to begin with, having no hierarchy means you'll have to face the byzantine problem
jurov: TomServo: is meant to or it actually solves? why friedcat isn'
t using it, for example?
mircea_popescu: as it won'
t push out div if the share count is > the declared count
pgp: I don'
t care about delay, just the ability to move it
BitHub: but don'
t think its really suited for me atm
TomServo: mircea_popescu: I didn'
t realize bitvps was listed on mpex originally. Why the transfer?
TomServo: I will take a look. Honestly, I don'
t know much other than it sounds like the glbse closure was a fuckshow.
mircea_popescu: TomServo well i don'
t see how it'd do better than what's currently in place atm
furuknap: I don'
t know, that's the point. If I had the solution, I would tell you, honestly :-)
furuknap: OK, so here's one problem that current asset market doesn'
t solve. Insider trading or what we consider unethical price manipulation, legal or otherwise. I don'
t have a solution, but a BTC-based or derived system may bring forth ideas that could control or somehow reverse illegal actions, as defined by whatever jurisdiction.
mircea_popescu: the objection is that this thing wouldn'
t actually add any benefit.
mircea_popescu: you know this is diosxcussed in the article you apparently don'
t want to read.
aknap3: for my own trading, I don'
t use it because I prefer to play options
aknap3: topace: didn'
t think you were paying attention :)
furuknap: mp, I hadn'
t seen that internet story video. Very, very cool, thanks for sharing.
aknap3: but I don'
t have any shares right now :)
ThickAsThieves: the quote is great insight, but we don'
t know WHEN that will happen