log☇︎
111200+ entries in 0.881s
pete_dushenski: y patches directory. should i just wait until it syncs fully and build another rotor (with line 61 updated) or is there something else i can try ?
pete_dushenski: mod6: i have a question about the version string patch... i seem to have applied it correctly but i'm still seeing version "50400" even when trying the '-setvernum' command so i'm not sure what i'm doing wrong. this is a new instance that's in the process of syncing, not 'tevye', which properly shows '99999'. i used the original 99997k script and applied 'version-strings' and 'hearnificarum' manually and both are now
mod6: hanbot: alrighty, thanks. sometimes if I don't hear anything, i just assume the worst. heheh.
hanbot: not really. i've been fucking around trying to get bash to save public key block to file without detritus, giving up for now and just copypasting. i'll letcha know if it goes wrong, thanks for the cleanup note.
ascii_butugychag: http://imgur.com/rRWxCi3 << re: chalkboard thread. the one i have here.
mircea_popescu: no, i read it.
mod6: as soon as i get through the end of this month, a renewed emphasis will be put on ditching this script, and getting to a finished place with trinque's makefiles that'll hopefully be easier to understand. ☟︎☟︎
phf: (all this v talk past few days, i decided to sit down and grok, so Writin My Own V (tm)(c) at the moment)
ascii_butugychag: phf: i ~would~ like to see a maximally-granular (split into patchons) version of mod6's flow graph
phf: having multiple hunks in a patch modify several files at the same time creates a harder transition constraint then simple antecedent/descendent pairing, so i'm thinking it's probably safe to construct a graph in terms of transitions rather then purely a/d. the end result should be the same
phf: mircea_popescu: anyway, i was speaking of how things are right now in v.py/v.pl. a hunk touches a file, hunks are grouped thematically (i.e. by a single unit of meaning) in a patch. a pairing of antecedent/descendent creates a graph and in combination with topo logical sort produces a press order
mircea_popescu: im sorry, other stuff. and i typo'ed verify.
mod6: I'll change the comment, standby.
hanbot: oh so i don't actually need korsgaard's key in the .wot dir
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> try just korsgaard << i guess you could try this
hanbot: say mod6 (or whoever else knoweth), given keys in .wot dir are to be named by wot identity a la mod6, what am i to name korsgaard's key, since he's not in wot?
phf: ascii_butugychag: i am speaking of vpatches, i'm starting to grok that mp is speaking at a different level of abstraction
ascii_butugychag: i thought he was speaking of vpatches
mircea_popescu: i don't think you can find anyone who both read bitcoin source and thinks the file split is sane.
ascii_butugychag: the reason why i once suggested breaking up all patches into atomic patchons is that right now we have a stricter than necessary dependency flow ☟︎
phf: i think it's relevant, but i need to reflect how. fwiw right now there's a bunch of vpatches that modify multiple files at the same time
mircea_popescu: but this line is i suppose not germane to your inquiry so let's let it be.
mircea_popescu: that situation may occur, and it is a signal that the way code is split into files is broken and needs fixing, i guess.
phf: i remember ascii suggesting that perhaps we should stick to one hunk per patch, but that's not the case right with existing patches. if z thematically needs to touch two different files (a and b), then both modifications are inside a single patch
mircea_popescu: i guess it would be a transition graph, at least in most cases.
phf: so we have files a, b and patches x, y, z. x is genesis. y is a->a'. z is a'->a" b->b'. the way v connects the graph is x-y x-z y-z, i.e. patches that have hunks that share state for a file in before and after are connected. it is explicitly not a transition graph, which would be x-y y-z (since you can't apply z on top of x without first applying y)?
mod6: thanks danielpbarron -- hey please give this a try if you can. I figured that you might be a good one to simplify the steps and up date the wiki as soon as we get some confirmation that all is good with the script
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389021 << i was going to suggest this but figured i'd keep reading logs to see if someone beat me to it :D ☝︎
ascii_butugychag: and i saw it again too when mircea_popescu linked it 1st time
mircea_popescu: actually, there's a cartoon of all thiongs that best illustrates what a blackboard is as a device of thought. lemme see if i can fish it out\
ascii_butugychag: i really wish they came in full man size
mircea_popescu: it's mathematical alright, just i guess unsatisfying for a wholly unrelated biological cue
ascii_butugychag: i still remember the whanging headaches i got just from sitting in front row
ascii_butugychag: but i find that there is something palpably... unmathematical, about 'whiteboards'
mircea_popescu: lol i always wondered why us highschoolers didn't get into toluene huffing\
mircea_popescu: i can actually live with those.
mircea_popescu: i like boards so much im actually going to buy one just for slavegirl training.
ascii_butugychag: when collaborating mathematically, i am stuck with MOTHERFUKING chalkboards
ascii_butugychag: i can only do that here because no math in the chan
ascii_butugychag: i'm on a console term
ascii_butugychag: i do not WANT any-time.
mircea_popescu: "i know what he said, but what did he MEAN by it ?"
phf: i remember there was a pretty big stink when firefox was magic sequencing xml files as rss feeds years ago
ascii_butugychag: in-band signalling (i.e. 'this magic sequence of characters anywhere in the text launches the rockets') suxxxx.
mircea_popescu: “Well, I’m not sure I completely agree that Slashdot is less vital these days or has lost its luster,” he replied. “It serves millions of unique viewers each month, which we think is pretty significant.
ascii_butugychag: and i originally thought 'let's take & clean gnudiff' and barfed ten times.
ascii_butugychag: where i can include arbitrary transforms.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: what i want is not a gutted corpse of gnudiff, but a turing-complete vtron
mircea_popescu: whoa mom, check me out, i made it through yet another day of these here kiloline logs!
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 15:38:47; ascii_butugychag: i suppose this is when i restate my rage at the idiocy of gnudiff
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 15:08:20; thestringpuller: the problem here is I doubt satoshi had any idea how visa and traditional payment systems scaled in comparison to bitcoin.
trinque: yep, I have a ticket open to have an SSD put in my new box,b ut am awaiting response from the (disappointing) new DC
ben_vulpes: as did i
mircea_popescu: i even said this at some point.
trinque: I... have it on a restart cron job... and I feel dirty.
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag i just meant they've been living in a particular half-world for a while now.
ascii_butugychag: i just brought a set of sparse matrices to orgasm, for instance
hanbot: mod6> the one I just posted? << yeah
ascii_butugychag: i confess that i've been using my ancient vtron. but will prolly switch to mod6's industrial-strength one very soon
mod6: the one I just posted?
hanbot: oh hey. mod6, i'm ezbake-ovening that now!
mircea_popescu: i'd prolly end up with multiple timed canesa
mircea_popescu: punishment doesn't necessarily have to be a spur of a moment thing, i'm not training dogs.
ascii_butugychag: i originally did not publish the thing that is now shiva because i was not comfortable with asking friends to read 5,000 lines of tinyscheme.
ascii_butugychag: the overall idea i am trying to teach is that anybody changing a line of trb ought to be mindful of the work this creates for others ☟︎
mircea_popescu: well i'm not willing to stake on that, because what the fuck do you know we'll discover. but at least as an expected ideal, yeah.
ascii_butugychag: i see nothing wrong with cleaning up classical error handlers, etc, so long as it is done in line with the flow principle described earlier.
ascii_butugychag: (i.e. part 1 can be mechanically-litmused: 'this only adds the ts genesis material')
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: note how i cut the shiva patch in 2
polarbeard: I appreciate this way though
mircea_popescu: i'm slowly discovering what an IMMENSE help to debugging and code maintenance this thematic unity thing is, incidentally.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: one of the items i have in mind for shivafication is sane event logging
polarbeard: I'm open to suggestions but now I'm a bit saturated of this, I'll somewhere else for some days...
polarbeard: yeah, I understand people don't want to run rube-goldberg machines
polarbeard: xargs -I'@' sh -c 'echo \"@\" |cut -d\" \" -f1,3- | tee \$(echo \"@\" | cut -d\" \" -f2)'
mircea_popescu: depends how many greps i want lol.
mircea_popescu: yes, if you just dump into console i'm going to have to pipe the program throuygh a bunch of different greps
mircea_popescu: note that the only way i got my apparently very controversial /s /t patch to even be considered was showing how it could be machined.
polarbeard: also I thought you can dump to console and grep until we reach consensus on how we want to do the actual log splitting and filtering
ascii_butugychag: so i can ask the same question, line after line, for a whole patch
polarbeard: mircea_popescu: the patch ended up being a bit verbose, yep, but it made sense to me fixing the messages as I was adding metadata, that's why I didn't add filtering, to not add actual logic to an already pretty big patch
ascii_butugychag: but then i plugged it in...
ascii_butugychag: i got one as a gift from an old chum
pete_dushenski: ascii_butugychag: nor i. rat9 looked spiffy but chewed through swappable battery in ~5 hours. even when 'worked' it twitched and jumped and spasmed and triggered all kinds of inane shit. couldn't even highlight menu bar drop-downs.
mircea_popescu: . i'm with ben_v (and apparently ascii too) in that it's really best practice to make patches small and issue-focused. it's not just a matter of review, it's to ease future rebasing and so on. as antidesign it may seem to you personally on the basis of workflow, this is one of those things where individual has to take a small step back to allow society altogether to exist.
mircea_popescu: . i'm with punkman in that if you're going to prefix in that much detail, there's going to have to be some sort of filtering scheme. i'm not with him that flags are the solution, it just seems an ad-hoc hack unix did that got carried forward. i'm still partial to my multi-logfiles idea, fwiw. altogether a lot more thought must be put into "how to structure" this, but sadly it depends on a fully specified bitcoin, so it
ascii_butugychag: but i just can't be arsed
pete_dushenski: i have one. it's for sale on local classifieds
mircea_popescu: so in full terms, i would say that again, including both in the same patch is both premature optimization and a kludge.
phf: a way to indicate (a->a' b->b') would normally be to include them both in a single patch. i think that's how it's done now
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 13:20:42; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388189 << i must say also that this is not why i wrote it, originally. this was an attempt at an online debugger, so i can interactively play with tx in mempool, issue db queries, etc.
phf: so in the above example x y z are distinct patches, their effect is to take files through states, a, a', a". so if a patch takes a->a', then it needs a in genesis. if a patch takes a'->a" then it needs genesis and a->a' patch. i was trying to indicate that y and z modify two separate files, i'm trying to see what is there that indicates that state (a' b') is desirable over (a' b)
mircea_popescu: im sorry, i mean : if you didn't need y, then y should have been z'.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 14:29:59; PeterL: my node is syncing, seemed to be getting tons of junk. I restarted it, using -addnode with the nodes from the wiki, seems to be going good again.
punkman: phf, my "shortest path" algo is to recursively find all antecedents of the patch I want to press. it's useful.
phf: if i have files a b and patches x y z, x is genesis, y does a->a', z does b->b', topo sort x z y. if i were to ask for y press, i also get z, whether i need it or not. conversly if i press z, i don't get y.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 14:36:41; BingoBoingo: And the lolz roll on https://i.imgur.com/Q2X24B7.png
phf: i'm confused about how v presses. i thought it was along the shortest path, but it actually does topological sort and then works with resulting list. so if my topo is a b d c f and i ask to press c, then i get a b d c?
BingoBoingo: ascii_butugychag: I guess I got to now. Shiva represents first serious mega-weaponized divergence of trb from prb
ascii_butugychag: doable yes. but in the same sense as the thing i just did, was doable.