asciilifeform: arguably volcano is poor example, for glass. just as bird is astonishingly dead end for flight.

asciilifeform: or to masturbatieon

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik this is not specific to woman

asciilifeform: not dumber. but sexless. (at least until reformatted)

asciilifeform: lol suuure

asciilifeform: less astonishing than having wooden wheels, and running water, and not coming up with water mill.

asciilifeform: (iirc it found a use for automagically opening temple doors when sacrificial pit was lit up)

asciilifeform: object, iirc, turned up in late egyptian piles

asciilifeform: y'know, the 'hey d00dz i have steam engine' 'lol, why would anyone want this, we have slaves'

asciilifeform: also disinfo ?

asciilifeform: speaking of greek-fu, what does mircea_popescu have to say re the traditional story of hero of alexandria's steam kettle ?

asciilifeform: evidently only to asciilifeform .

asciilifeform: we - or at least asciilifeform - does not know this for certain. but the shape of the smoking crater -- suggests it.

asciilifeform: vice-versa

asciilifeform: aristotelian postulates give you warm feeling of satisfaction; work-with-hands and observations-trump-theory give you ballista.

asciilifeform: sure does.

asciilifeform: or, in the case of 'britain vs zulu', the folks with the maxim - won.

asciilifeform: hunter.

asciilifeform: it ain't the deer.

asciilifeform: uncle al had imho pretty good 'cartoon' for this 'all philosophies are equally dead' red herring -- 'who holds the rifle during deer season? and why'

asciilifeform: dead philosophies do invite themselves to this reduction to cartoon, yes.

asciilifeform: but it is dead end in the sense where it does not produce diode.

asciilifeform: it wasn't simply 'they died', their approach to thought, as i pointed out in the start of this thread, is alive and well, 'allah farted and moves electron'

asciilifeform: how's this plug in

asciilifeform: it remains -- the folks with the linear-circles have ballista, while the ones with the circular linearities -- got anally waltzed by turks

asciilifeform: this notion, that you can 'unpiss a swimming pool,' recurs.

asciilifeform: to same result (mega-snore)

asciilifeform: iirc norway did something similar (de-danish?)

asciilifeform: btw the modern greeks' attempt to unfuck (deturkify) their language, is rather lulzy to trained entomologist

asciilifeform: 'greek' is broad concept, yes

asciilifeform: ( see also: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576684 ) ☝︎

asciilifeform: might not be so obvious what archaeologists will take a liking to.

asciilifeform: the distinguishing cut is that one gives you the ballista (or diode, or nuke) and the other -- irigaray.

asciilifeform: the idea of '1,111 stones' is just as inaccessible.

asciilifeform: it is not the greek rejections that make for circular logic, but what they did not reject.

asciilifeform: if the imaginary entity (e.g., n-dimensional space) is the most parsimonious known model of an otherwise-inaccessible physical system -- it is not purely imaginary in the irigaray sense.

asciilifeform: (or how do you say it in engl)

asciilifeform: they 'multiplied the entities'

asciilifeform: the strings folx willingly put themselves in the company of irigaray et al when they explicitly pissed on parsimony and physical testability.

asciilifeform: soo if we gotta have P>1, we get P>1.

asciilifeform: except that heaviside had absolutely no problem introducing sqrt(-1) into models of reality

asciilifeform: but where does one meet these.

asciilifeform: well yes no shit >1

asciilifeform: i can picture one as a nonphysical boojum, like the imaginary solution to a quadratic

asciilifeform: what even is a 'superunitary probability' ?

asciilifeform: 'aristotle: your postulates are just as circular!' 'asciilifeform: i made a working diode from things i dug up' 'aristotle: you just got lucky' ☟︎

asciilifeform: so you don't need super 'hi-fi' one.

asciilifeform: actually even asciilifeform's emulated aristotle tends to say this.

asciilifeform: i'm quite certain that he would.

asciilifeform: i in particular would like to understand the greeks. but every time i go full bore and try, i end up with 'the arbitrary crapola i gotta load into my head, to properly sink into this text, is quite equally loathesome to, e.g., 'dialectic materialism', or obummercare, or american patent law, etc.'

asciilifeform: how do you disqualify queen from a vanished throne ?

asciilifeform: folks who 'can't be translated into idiot mongol' are guilty until proven innocent of playing glass bead games with words and pulling one another's cocks

asciilifeform: 'portable'

asciilifeform: but euclid, evidently -- not

asciilifeform: why'd that be ?

asciilifeform: then i ask for coherent picture of subj in some current living language -- and no dice

asciilifeform: well, earlier in thread, we had ' dutch is wrong, aristotle meant this-here untranslateable thing, not 'body' in monkeyspeak'

asciilifeform: e.g., https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/88/57/39/8857398b2e0e5db80fa99a7720100499.jpg .

asciilifeform: not salvation, no. but a kind of hygiene. diagram forces the speaker to use fewer #includes and 'powers of greek' etc.

asciilifeform: 'used diagrams, like complete tard'

asciilifeform: it remains fact - that euclid was considerably more portable.

asciilifeform: this is entirely possible.

asciilifeform: (in 'politics', possibly elsewhere)

asciilifeform: because afaik this shows up again and again, and aristotle in particular explicitly pissed on the very concept of a thinking man working with his hands

asciilifeform: to revisit upstack -- yes, mircea_popescu's greek-fu is strong, and asciilifeform's -- weak. so, let's ask him, is it a misperception of untutored barbarians, that the greeks picked reasoning over observation , categorically ?

asciilifeform: and it is considerably harder to talk sheer circular crapolade via diagram.

asciilifeform: ^

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if the rabbit cannot be pulled out of the hat, perhaps there is no rabbit in the hat ?

asciilifeform: and what, gonna tell me that aristotle also did not derive, out of his arse, woman having fewer teeth than man ?

asciilifeform: so let's have better translation ?

asciilifeform: i don't even see this as specifically greek - it is standard 'blub effect', modern plankton thinks 'maths is what i learned in kindergarten', negative space -- universal

asciilifeform: ( oblig: https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/GreeksWrong.HTM )

asciilifeform: well naturally it is ~perceived~ coherence

asciilifeform: aha, and specifically the greeks had the dial cranked 100% to 'coherence'

asciilifeform: because 'result' is very slippery thing.

asciilifeform: and it is not clear that its death was a pure win.

asciilifeform: the 'intellectual coherence ranks above results' thing had not fully died in his time

asciilifeform: recall the gauss (specifically re euclid's 5th) thread ?

asciilifeform: have dispensed with ~100% of what used to be called fundamental method - incl. testability

asciilifeform: the modern string theory folx

asciilifeform: you don't have to go far:

asciilifeform: (soon-to-be-corpse on a scale, etc)

asciilifeform: hey, folx were 'weighing souls' as recently as t. edison

asciilifeform: fortunately (?) we still have a working model of the old school, preserved: 'atoms move because allah farts on them'

asciilifeform: this parallel universe where anglotards pretend to be various things -- it mostly does not exist for folx not tuned in.

asciilifeform: but are perfectly adequate for all kinds of everyday work.

asciilifeform: the pedestrian notions of 'voltage' and 'current' also have problems.

asciilifeform: 'those with title to something worthless will find a way to extract value from it, making it even more worthless. An abandoned suburban subdivision might be worthless as housing, but valuable as a dump site for toxic waste.' (orlol's discussion of 'asset stripping', in http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/062805_soviet_lessons_part2.shtml )

asciilifeform: hey, s. lem got there first, in 'futurological congress' !1111

asciilifeform: 'omfg flightsims!? go and burn in a proper winged coffin like a man!'

asciilifeform: aha. or even the reaction to asciilifeform's 'what's a good flight sim' side thread

asciilifeform: well no shit, imaginary creatures of particular type, can indeed eat it. but they run on top of physical hardware, which eats entirely other things.

asciilifeform: you can't eat eulora grass.

asciilifeform: (and of the soldier, etc)

asciilifeform: they're still gambling over the gambling proceeds of the farmer and of the miner.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is not clear to me that a chumpatron operator has to experience any more 'alienation' than a pig farmer. the latter does not particularly care how pigs remember his work. nor the chumpatronist -- how the chumps remember.

asciilifeform: folx launching rockets to pluto are also 'far away from life's work'

asciilifeform: the builder, unless he is exceptionally stupid himself, understands that it will explode. his idea is simply to be somewhere far, far away, when it does.

asciilifeform: the average 'human potential' furniture could probably be persuaded to believe everything, and its opposite, 'six times before breakfast'.

asciilifeform: ( https://archive.is/XoyjV << vintage soros lulz )