log☇︎
106200+ entries in 0.851s
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: for users, sure. i found my own workarounds last month when i misattributed tx propogation failure to bitcoinj instead of bitbet taint. but for businesses ?
shinohai: I am cursing bitcoin today - had my first trb database crash ... evidently I did not back up *everything* required and must now start my first node from scratch.
pete_dushenski: if i may summarise the last 24 hours of logs, which i must say were eminently enjoyable save the lack of practical recourse discussed : bitcoin remains the world's worst payment network... except for all the others. and even still, not by much. ☟︎
BingoBoingo: Win https://i.sli.mg/d0MOEm.png
asciilifeform: this one's new to me, but i recall a similar.
asciilifeform: i only recall the hedgehog.
asciilifeform: i might be mentally overextending traditions from the meat world, but wouldn't a lost key be different from a dead lord's in the sense where a man lost at sea differs from one buried with witnesses ?
mircea_popescu: i could see the deedbot will thing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i gotta ask, what happens to shares owned by the dead ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, i've been working on that thing for two days in 30 second installments in between nutty bitcoin shit that shouldn't happen anyway.
mircea_popescu: trinque doesn't like that there's multiples ? or what did i do wrong ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i did not.
asciilifeform: i already live with one.
mircea_popescu: i'm sure you could live with it. but that's a different question.
mircea_popescu: i don't want a fucking big-brother-bitcoin-from-china-san to pray to.
punkman: I don't think this experiment is worth, say ~6 months of profits, but that's strictly the BB's board discretion.
PeterL: I'm just a minor shareholder, my opinion doesn't count for much
danielpbarron: i think he knows more than I do about this matter, and I trust him when he says something is u
PeterL: danielpbarron yes, but that would require there to be something rotten to fight against, I think mircea_popescu is just jumping at shadows
assbot: Logged on 02-03-2016 17:41:15; jurov: actually, i am surprised that nobody of bitbet shareholders was loud about this
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420349 << perhaps my holdings aren't significant enough to have any weight on the issue, but nontheless I as a BitBet shareholder agree with the decision to draw attention to whatever issue at the expense of a few months of dividends. At the very least it can be seen as a marketing expense, BitBet being the catalyst to war against something truly rotten in bitcoin, something th ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 02-03-2016 18:40:06; punkman: I don't think "working" protocol means being able to assume signed and broadcasted tx has been forgotten and won't come back to bite you in the ass. What's in who's mempool is unknowable.
punkman: I don't think "working" protocol means being able to assume signed and broadcasted tx has been forgotten and won't come back to bite you in the ass. What's in who's mempool is unknowable. ☟︎
BingoBoingo: jurov: If it makes you feel any better as an embedded reporter in this conflict I sometimes wonder if, like those reporters Bush sent into Iraq and coming away with a polished view because I am not yet made to sleep in the hills with nagant and donkey.
jurov: so i have my reservations about these scenarios you and alf present here
jurov: *shrug* i know you want some insights as to the actual war, but whatever ricocheted shots came my way (ddos, tx problems), i solved myself in anti-#b-a ways without learning anything about the enemy
mircea_popescu: and now, if teh esteemed peerage may excuse me for a bit, i really gotta eat and make this smg report. so bbs.
mircea_popescu: but i'm first in line to say i'd much prefer a bitcoin protocol that was actually specified, and actually worked.
asciilifeform: jurov: considering that the only thing i am apparently good at is falling on grenades, i would happily sit on this one for you if i knew how.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I've been hanging out at the hospital with Grandpa while he rehabs from his stroke. I think I might have a touch of sympathy cognitive impairment.
asciilifeform: jurov: and to the extent i blow my very little free time on trbism, they are.
asciilifeform: at any rate, i've been repeating, largely to deaf ears, since i showed up here,
jurov: so far i don't remember it happen
asciilifeform: jurov would be astonished to learn what i live from.
mircea_popescu: i'm glad to hear. you think that's germane ?
jurov: i'm living off it for some years, that's "works" for me.
mircea_popescu: holy shit, the warnings i haven't been putting out ;/
mircea_popescu: jurov> let me at least know im funding the war? << i'm sorry, you thought bitcoin WORKED ?
assbot: Logged on 02-03-2016 16:35:04; mircea_popescu: you have to understand that the direct correlate of "bitcoin protocol is nowhere" is that i'm stuck sitting here wasting tons of resources and various people's time doing an endless array of stupid or plain weird shit to see what happens to try and understand what's what.
asciilifeform: tbh i'm a little surprised that mircea_popescu was pinching pennies on tx fees
asciilifeform: possibly time to show'em 'кузькина мать' i mean.
mircea_popescu: that's my priviledge. i'm the one actually doing things, there.
jurov: no it's "lalalala all i did was very right and proper, it's YOU who have to come up with theory"
mircea_popescu: well no, it's "lalala i can't hear you" time.
asciilifeform: i could've sworn we had this thread
mircea_popescu: i can appreciate gut feel, but it's no sort of argument as to anything.
mircea_popescu: jurov looky, this thing whereby in reaction to a "this guy is accused of having killed that guy and here's the smoking gun" you come up with a "hey, i fired a gun once, and the smoke went so and so" is a waste of time. you wish to construct an alternate theory, please, by all means, i would wish to hear it. but you must take ALL the points, and show that your path crossing them is cheaper than the one detailed on qntra
kakobrekla: needles to say i dont agree with mps actions or interpretation of the results, even if you take out the qntra comment.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd be curious re: what the 'technical solution' is.
mircea_popescu: i dunno what code you read or what you did when, but good for you!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he asked about it, i saw no problem republishing.
jurov: yes, because as opposed to mircea_popescu i did read the code closely and it does maintain chains of unconfirmed transactions
jurov: when had transaction problem with coinbr withdrawal, i did not risk
jurov: people are sheep everywhere, i guess.
jurov: actually, i am surprised that nobody of bitbet shareholders was loud about this ☟︎
assbot: Logged on 02-03-2016 17:15:50; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla yes, by the time the 4th txn trying to pay out bitbet vanished without a trace, i was sort-of expecting it.
jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420300 << so you used not your own money for such experiments. why am i not surprised? ☝︎
kakobrekla: as i mentioned before, if you really believe that miners are conspiring against bitbet (via known outputs and amounts) then its game over for bb.
asciilifeform: but if mircea_popescu coughts up a (c), i'll enjoy reading.
asciilifeform: so far the only solutions i can picture divide into 2 classes,
asciilifeform: hey it beats being in the business i'm in (swimming in tank of shit with shit-eating pirannhas)
mircea_popescu: hey, i'm in the business of fundamentals, apparently.
mircea_popescu: i am not in the slightest proposing this. i am saying however that the toilet may be part of the solution, but can't be THE solution.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i've been thinking about it, but i don't think this is actually resolvable. as it happens - the "magically working network - we don't know how it works" thing is much more appealing to the average joe than you know, "this is my node. i will defend it with my life". what life, are you kidding, got sitcoms to watch and shit. ☟︎
asciilifeform: i for one am disappointed, i expected there would be a lively thread re: the exact how-tos of applying boot to some well-deserved faces in the middle kingdom and elsewhere.
mircea_popescu: PeterL looky, i'm not going to carry on this conversation. i get it, you wish to be dense and stonewall. fine, but stop derping at me about it.
mircea_popescu: i'm a masochist like that. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla yes, by the time the 4th txn trying to pay out bitbet vanished without a trace, i was sort-of expecting it. ☟︎☟︎
PeterL: I don't see a problem, you signed two transactions and they both were mined, where is the problem?
mircea_popescu: whether i am surprised or not is not included in this discussion. i don't recall saying i was surprised, nor does over-the-lan telepathy historically work. moreover, my own state is deeply irrelevant : the problem is there, and it's grinning at you.
kakobrekla: its like gpg signing "i give you half of pile x" the reciever says "didnt get the message at all" and then you go ok nvm "i give you half of pile y" now.
kakobrekla: or should i say inputs. i always get confused with the two.
kakobrekla: becase i assume you know once you put out a signed statement of spending some outputs those can actually be spent at a later time if they are still there.
mircea_popescu: you think i'd rather have 18 btc than know all this ? i wouldn't.
mircea_popescu: i distinctly recal trb nearly sunk in the other incident, while mpb provided the magic constants. why was that ?
asciilifeform: i distinctly recall that trb sailed through the july incident while mpb did not.
mircea_popescu: one of the many protocol items that turned to be promises was - i shouldn't NEED any defense.
mircea_popescu: what can i say.
mircea_popescu: i don't run homogenous stack tho.
asciilifeform: i'
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla> one thing that goes through my mind is that trb/mps << this is true, but let me clarify that An set of txn were broadcast through a set of > 1k distinct peers. most of which i don't regard as peers in any sense, but nevertheless they did get to hear about them from my own nodes.
BingoBoingo: Ok, will remove bad one once I make a pot of coffee and identify it
mircea_popescu: so i thought. i dun think so.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: we - or at least i - have nfi what 'most nodes' are or do. the sybils are not necessarily relevant.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> historically i thought this is just random variance between divergent implementations, but now i think it's a single unit behaviour modulated somehow << Could be turdacious relay network or it's replacement's evil
mircea_popescu: which at the time i did buy as a sufficient explanation.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, which is why i did not ring the alarm.
mircea_popescu: i suppose you know, gut feeling. can go either way. which is why i said, doesn't have to accept anything.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, i'm just asking.
kakobrekla: the odds of that are less than the odds of what we observed. and i think the odds of ko
asciilifeform: i can fall through the floor.
mircea_popescu: nothing is randomly impossible. i have no argument there.
kakobrekla: i dont see the events that took place as randomly impossible
mircea_popescu: so have i. so has everyone!
kakobrekla: i have seend weird shit happen with mempools with my own very eyes.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla> arguably i have more actual experience with sending txes than alf. << well, that was a discussion of mempools i thought, so i'm not sure this reduction is relevant.
asciilifeform: and, for that matter, i predicted that miners would turn, long ago.
kakobrekla: arguably i have more actual experience with sending txes than alf.
asciilifeform: i accepted because i saw it alive right here.
BingoBoingo: !up Luke-Jr May get an ack if "brick chicom miners" goes with it? Been hanging out with stroke victims recently and my brian is having sympathy deficits so I gotta defer to the peerage.