asciilifeform: no matter how it is made.

asciilifeform: though it still doesn't hurt to remember that deedbot (or any similar scheme) can only prove ~floors~ and never ~ceilings~

asciilifeform: *uninterruptedly

asciilifeform: i also expect that (at least if traditional bitcoin continues to function interruptedly) promisetronic 'we the wise men agreed that hash H represents this tarball which existed in 2012...' will become entirely unnecessary and hence dispensed with in favour of actual pointers to deedbot

asciilifeform: probably this is the only consistent and long-term-sane method.

asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu would not hold any of the signers answerable for its defects

asciilifeform: in the sense that it is of heathen birth, but nevertheless memorialized as an origin and not subsumed

asciilifeform: why does trb-genesis get special treatment in mircea_popescu's scheme ?

asciilifeform: except mircea_popescu is not doing without milk, he (and i, and the lot of us) is drinking the pus from syphilitic whore.

asciilifeform: and, again, 'no cow -- no milk.' the alternative to shiva is not 'clean code from reliable people in wot' but the old satoshi abortion in continued use.

asciilifeform: ain't happening.

asciilifeform: i ain't equating, e.g., tinyscheme, to works from my own pen.

asciilifeform: mod6: rebased how

asciilifeform: there must remain the option of keeping cow.

asciilifeform: shiva(tinyscheme) is not a wife, it is a cow. it is quite possible to have a house without a cow. if you do have a cow, it lives in separate structure, and nobody will need to be reminded that it is not a wife. ☟︎

asciilifeform: note that we did ~same thing for trb genesis.

asciilifeform: ( as per http://deedbot.org/deed-378272-1.txt )

asciilifeform: if i can't codify 'за что купил за то продал' -- we have problem.

asciilifeform: nor tinyscheme, etc.

asciilifeform: satoshi's liquishit is no child of mine.

asciilifeform: imho for no c program is this a safe (in terms of preserving one's honour) act.

asciilifeform: if there is literally no way to memorialize the fact that i took $item off a dead nazi, or dug up from sunken atlantis, rather than wrote it personally -- said item will have to be done without. (unless someone else in your wot does the imho monumentally idiotic act of 'adopting it as own child') ☟︎

asciilifeform: slave-fucking was a sometimes-thing there, evidently.

asciilifeform: eh even modern mexico, the actual-people-people are white (as white as spain, at least)

asciilifeform: you give'em spanish names but they live in slave quarters.

asciilifeform: and so i remain skeptical of vtronic practices that obscure authorship, for whatever otherwise excellent reasons.

asciilifeform: where 'everything' is written by 'everyone and no one'

asciilifeform: aha. and one of the old plagues i aimed to cure, with v, was the 'fog of war' surrounding authorship.

asciilifeform: to elaborate on the 'no children' bit, extreme strictness does not leave us with 'either correct software! XOR stone knives and bearskins and NO software!' but rather with 'massive pile of old broken software'

asciilifeform: *consistent

asciilifeform: this is a consistend position.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu also tends to ignore the very real risk of 'no concubines, no children'

asciilifeform: this was, recall, before mircea_popescu's gordian knot cut of 'use multiple keys'

asciilifeform: i specifically asked to memorialize the fact that i did not write tinyscheme.

asciilifeform: but this was not wife, but concubine

asciilifeform: they fuck and have 1 child.

asciilifeform: imho this is a distinct item and oughta remain indicable.

asciilifeform: in the case of tinyscheme, i dealt with (or at least thought i was dealing with) the case where two separate bloodlines merge.

asciilifeform: how many other stylistic eggogs should v enforce ? tabs-v-spaces?

asciilifeform: and i entirely agree with mircea_popescu that working with such a thing is terrifyingly poor discipline.

asciilifeform: every node in a tree with 1,001 roots, flows back to ~one~ particular root.

asciilifeform: you NEVER press 'a multiroot tree.' you press ~one node~, which has ~one root~

asciilifeform: that dun make blue paint an eggog.

asciilifeform: i get it, mircea_popescu really hates blue colour, and thinks that merc engine should light eggog light an' stop immediately if it detects blue paint on chassis

asciilifeform: thing -- behaves.

asciilifeform: they don't lead to unexpected 'wtf'

asciilifeform: not when it is written correctly (i.e. as i did)

asciilifeform: they don't crash the algo.

asciilifeform: i get that mircea_popescu really, ~really~ hates multirooted vtrees. this doesn't make'em '1==2'

asciilifeform: it's euclid's 5th.

asciilifeform: this is what i meant by 'logically valid.' it isn't a '1 == 2'

asciilifeform: yes but all points on the graph are unambiguously pressable to.

asciilifeform: this is impossible to arrange even deliberately.

asciilifeform: it cannot be part of two disconnected flows.

asciilifeform: you pick a node to press to.

asciilifeform: but you can never do this

asciilifeform: it is a logically valid, if stylistically undesirable, state

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i disagree that multiple-roots should be a mechanical eggog.

asciilifeform: (and follow the correct sequence to the respective root if pressing)

asciilifeform: display both flows correctly, press if asked.

asciilifeform: mod6: should do 100% what mine did.

asciilifeform: cultivating a project with multiple roots may be bad form, but vtron ~must~ display properly

asciilifeform: ( mircea_popescu's dictum of 'have 1 root' cannot be enforced mechanically, vtron has no business deciding arbitrarily which root is 'the' root)

asciilifeform: mod6: if your vtron throws out a valid, signed-by-wot patch that has 0 antecedents, it is broken

asciilifeform: (the reason for which, was to demonstrate that shiva was tinyscheme largely as-found-in-the-forest)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall, i actually had a wholly separate shiva-bridge

asciilifeform: hence the choice

asciilifeform: setting up a wholly artificial dependence also rubbed me wrong

asciilifeform: btw mircea_popescu's criticism of shiva-genesis was 100% deserved, it ~does in fact~ logically depend on trb, but did not indicate said dependence vtronically

asciilifeform: i can easily picture, e.g., FUCKGOATS, staying in that shape for the rest of eternity.

asciilifeform: at any rate 'solitary node' is a perfectly valid state for a vtree.

asciilifeform: aah

asciilifeform: the way, e.g., FUCKGOATS-genesis, is today.

asciilifeform: it was a perfectly valid vtree.

asciilifeform: mod6: consider the time when genesis alone existed.

asciilifeform: these are definitionally separate things

asciilifeform: mod6: wtf means 'root and leaf at the same time'

asciilifeform: they don't screw the thing up in any way.

asciilifeform: each with entirely own existence .

asciilifeform: you just see two roots.

asciilifeform: but they work fine in my vtron.

asciilifeform: it's a second root and mircea_popescu really, really hates'em.

asciilifeform: mod6: like shiva genesis ?

asciilifeform: mod6: bring it on

asciilifeform: 'Morales had no rope. And no fingers. He had a ten-foot length of bandage. And brass balls. Somehow, this dude with no fingers lowers himself from the window on the bandage. It snaps. Morales falls 20 feet onto an air conditioner, then another 20 feet to the ground. Injured, but alive. The Family and FALN whisk him away.' << first-class.

asciilifeform: they ask 'can i get away with being idiot'

asciilifeform: theoretically there is a borderland of folx who straddle the edge of sanity

asciilifeform: but i can't recall where.

asciilifeform: iirc there was a spiffy mircea_popescu article about the costs of letting 'harmless' idiots live (makes idiocy seem acceptable)

asciilifeform: not worth bullet, eh

asciilifeform: aaah them

asciilifeform: waiwat, who thought of what

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-25#1606755 is first-class lulfodder btw. ☝︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1606759 << new. from http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-25#1606683 ☝︎☝︎

asciilifeform bbl -- meat

asciilifeform: (and what exactly other choices do you have if all of your thing lives in pg)

asciilifeform: sounds pretty spartan

asciilifeform: ah

asciilifeform: what's pgfts?

asciilifeform: *people